February 4, 2009
You are being lied to about pirates
by Johann Hari
But behind the arrr-me-hearties oddness of this tale, there is an untold scandal. The people our governments are labeling as “one of the great menaces of our times” have an extraordinary story to tell – and some justice on their side.
Pirates have never been quite who we think they are. In the “golden age of piracy” – from 1650 to 1730 – the idea of the pirate as the senseless, savage thief that lingers today was created by the British government in a great propaganda heave. Many ordinary people believed it was false: Pirates were often rescued from the gallows by supportive crowds. Why? What did they see that we can’t?
In his book “Villains of All Nations,” the historian Marcus Rediker pores through the evidence to find out. If you became a merchant or navy sailor then – plucked from the docks of London’s East End, young and hungry – you ended up in a floating wooden Hell. You worked all hours on a cramped, half-starved ship, and if you slacked off for a second, the all-powerful captain would whip you with the cat o’ nine tails. If you slacked consistently, you could be thrown overboard. And at the end of months or years of this, you were often cheated of your wages.
Pirates were the first people to rebel against this world. They mutinied against their tyrannical captains – and created a different way of working on the seas. Once they had a ship, the pirates elected their captains, and made all their decisions collectively. They shared their bounty out in what Rediker calls “one of the most egalitarian plans for the disposition of resources to be found anywhere in the 18th century.”
They even took in escaped African slaves and lived with them as equals. The pirates showed “quite clearly – and subversively – that ships did not have to be run in the brutal and oppressive ways of the merchant service and the Royal navy.” This is why they were popular, despite being unproductive thieves.
The words of one pirate from that lost age – a young British man called William Scott – should echo into this new age of piracy. Just before he was hanged in Charleston, South Carolina, he said: “What I did was to keep me from perishing. I was forced to go a-pirating to live.”
In 1991, the government of Somalia – in the Horn of Africa – collapsed. Its 9 million people have been teetering on starvation ever since – and many of the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country’s food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.
Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.
Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the U.N. envoy to Somalia, tells me: “Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury – you name it.” Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to “dispose” of cheaply. When I asked Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: “Nothing. There has been no cleanup, no compensation and no prevention.”
At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia’s seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish stocks by over-exploitation – and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300 million worth of tuna, shrimp, lobster and other sea life is being stolen every year by vast trawlers illegally sailing into Somalia’s unprotected seas.
The local fishermen have suddenly lost their livelihoods, and they are starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: “If nothing is done, there soon won’t be much fish left in our coastal waters.”
This is the context in which the men we are calling “pirates” have emerged. Everyone agrees they were ordinary Somalian fishermen who at first took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least wage a “tax” on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coast Guard of Somalia – and it’s not hard to see why.
In a surreal telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was “to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters … We don’t consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas.” William Scott would understand those words.
No, this doesn’t make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters – especially those who have held up World Food Program supplies. But the “pirates” have the overwhelming support of the local population for a reason. The independent Somalian news site WardherNews conducted the best research we have into what ordinary Somalis are thinking – and it found 70 percent “strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defense of the country’s territorial waters.”
One of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was “to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters … We don’t consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas.”
During the revolutionary war in America, George Washington and America’s founding fathers paid pirates to protect America’s territorial waters, because they had no navy or coast guard of their own. Most Americans supported them. Is this so different?
Did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our nuclear waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome? We didn’t act on those crimes – but when some of the fishermen responded by disrupting the transit corridor for 20 percent of the world’s oil supply, we begin to shriek about “evil.” If we really want to deal with piracy, we need to stop its root cause – our crimes – before we send in the gunboats to root out Somalia’s criminals.
The story of the 2009 war on piracy was best summarized by another pirate, who lived and died in the fourth century BC. He was captured and brought to Alexander the Great, who demanded to know “what he meant by keeping possession of the sea.” The pirate smiled and responded: “What you mean by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you, who do it with a great fleet, are called emperor.”
Once again, our great imperial fleets sail in today – but who is the robber?
Johann Hari is a writer for the Independent newspaper. He has reported from Iraq, Israel/ Palestine, the Congo, the Central African Republic, Venezuela, Peru and the U.S., and his journalism has appeared in publications all over the world. To contact him, email johann@johannhari.com or visit his website at JohannHari.com. This column previously appeared in the Independent and Huffington Post, where the following postscript was added:
Postscript: Some commentators seem bemused by the fact that both toxic dumping and the theft of fish are happening in the same place – wouldn’t this make the fish contaminated? In fact, Somalia’s coastline is vast, stretching 3,300km (over 2,000 miles). Imagine how easy it would be – without any coast guard or army – to steal fish from Florida and dump nuclear waste on California, and you get the idea. These events are happening in different places but with the same horrible effect: death for the locals and stirred-up piracy. There’s no contradiction.
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The Somalis have had their country broken since the US declared a famine there in 1993, and went in with guns blazing. The genocidal war against the Somalis comes behind a great deal of propaganda, such as allegations about warlords, ghat-chewing “technicals” manning heavily armed trucks, Al Qaida councils taking over Mogadishu, and pirates sticking up arms merchants. All of this is a lie. Glad your article shed some light on what is going on in terms of the foreign fishing vessels and the dumping of waste products off the Somali coast. Peace.
This is so AFRICA!!! Got some nuclear waste to get rid of? Go dump it in Africa, where else? This is the ad hoc version of the “uranium repatriation” plan in our Department of Energy’s Global Nuclear Energy Partnership.
This is bloodsucking Imperialism at its finest hour. Stop ARICOM! Stop the genocidal war against African people!
This is not surprising to find a propaganda campaign behind the actions of our governments. The Pentagon alone spent over 1 Billion dollars last year on propaganda. It is imperative that we do everything we can to undermine this paradigm. Don’t watch their television (American Idol and the like), they are distracting you and diverting you energies. Try to buy local and not from any nationwide chain (including restaurants). Incorporate yourself to pay less taxes. Help your local policemen and firemen to get to know the New York City policemen and firemen who know firsthand and are eye witnesses to the fact that 9/11 was staged as a false flag event. Do everything you can to undermine large national corporations for they are certainly targeting you in the form of wage cuts, reduced health care, mass lay-offs, distracting propaganda, and golden parachutes for themselves. NOW IS THE TIME!
I didn’t realize that I could get my picture in the SF Bay View just by commenting here. I’m gonna have to figure that out.
But, given the urgency of the hour here, I’m gonna say, sans picture, that this story is especially disturbing as Washington comes so close to passing the big economic stimulus package with $50 billion in vagely defined loan guarantees that could easily go to clean coal and nuclear power projects.
The nuclear waste piling up in dry cask storage all over the country has already gone way past the limits the NRC was set to allow, because native groups and anti-nuclear activists have, thank God, stopped the big nuclear waste dump at Yucca Mt. And, now we’ve got “uranium repatriation” in the works—meaning, returning nuclear waste to the people and places we poisoned mining uranium in the first place. And what does that mean, most of all, now? Africa. Niger, Mali, Libya, Namibia, Uganda, Congo, Madagascar. Native America, Canada, the U.S., Brazil, and other parts of Latin America, Brazil. aboriginal Australia.
but who care about a bunch of random niggers ? do we have a shortage of niggers or something ???
Sorta figured it was something like this. So typical.
How sad….that such a gorgeous continent is being destroyed
and the people being deliberately starved.
This is pure bullshit. I can show it to you. At first it seems reasonable that when Somalia can no longer defend itself it is invaded and taken advantage of by wealthy Europeans. Seems likely, but there is a problem.
Why would Europeans sail across thousands of miles of unwatched seas to dump waste there? Why not dump it along the way in NO Countries water. They do not need to travel to the Somali coast to do this. And I do not believe they are.
Cracker, please. All you racist, crackers, please. I don’t even kno why lol stopped clubbing his momma to grunt out a statement. David, you got a gun cabinet? You listen to Rush? You gettin a rush off of something make you ask something that far out: man, you aint even in the game.
Ships don’t just dump waste, they don’t even leave a port unless they can get laden, right? On the way to pick up some tonnage elsewhere, they transporting maybe a low paying cargo. Waste and garbage classifies as cargo.
Why would you take your time to keyboard the answer and I got Occam’s razor at your throat? Gwan, cracker, get the hell out of here!
You hit it on the nose David. Why risk traveling all the way to Somalia when it could be dumped in International waters.
Also except for a few rogue Nations Nuclear Waste is tightly controlled and heavily Documented. To ship it without proper documentation and then just “dump it” is not an easy nor inexpensive option.
Sounds like typical liberal excuses. Poor Somalian Pirates they only Loot, Kidnap and Kill because they are disadvantaged.
It is all those horrible Americans fault!!!!
What a load of……….
Great article. All one has to do to see what the original pirates went through is watch the first Mutiny on the Bounty with Clark Gable from the 30’s. Many of the merchant seamen back then were kidnapped or as they called it “conscription” from bars, pubs, street corners etc. Seriously watch that movie (the one from the 30’s not the 60’s) and you can see what these poor men and their wives went through. Some of these seamen were stolen and conscripted in front of their families for no other reason but the fact that they were poor. Many of them did not want to sail but were literally kidnapped into it.
I know I would have been a pirate too if I was forced into those conditions.
Great article, seriously great.
It’s alright saying “why would they dump waste in Somalian waters?” and “it can’t be happening because in my opinion it doesn’t make sense”! It is happening, and the west aren’t the good guys and Africa the bad guys. When there’s an article like this that states facts, a bit of US or UK patriotism doesn’t reverse the facts.
Whilst piracy is always wrong, the causes of it by the west can be just as evil, maybe more so.
The west does plenty of bad stuff behind the scenes – and some in public – for it’s own interests.
The countries that claim to be the most ‘Christian’ need to look at what the word means, read what Jesus told his people to do & start doing it. Then the world would change for the better. “Feed the poor, clothe the hungry etc”. That’s not complicated really, but we are too selfish.
The thing is, life is much better when we look out for the needs of others. Not just for ‘them’, but for ‘us’ as well.
At least SOMEONE’S practicing egalitarian ideals in this world.
It’s easy to condemn a group of people when the corporate media has done such an excellent job of dehumanizing them.
I love this article. A lot.
They need to dump toxic waste in coastal waters to avoid the containment being crushed under pressure, from a deep sea drop.
You have claimed that europeans are dumping radioactive waste off the coast of Somalia, and are also stealing their fish to sell in european restaurants. If these claims are true, there is a simple way to prove it. Check the fish in european restaurants for radioactivity. If no radioactive fish can be found, then one or both of the claims in this article are false.
I would love to see if these claims are true.Very fascinating to see another perspective on what might be.
If you can’t google, then wtf are you doing on the internet!?
No government = large coastline = no stopping them
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4312553.stm
And why don’t they just dump it in the middle of the sea instead? Well, they do that also.
Nice eye opening article.
Utter bollocks.
Don’t believe everything you read folks, even if it fits your little ‘conspiracy theory’ existence.
And the containers used for nuclear waste can EASILY withstand the pressures involved in being dumped at the bottom of the ocean. Do your homework before posting please.
They should equip all ships with flamethrowers so we can crispy these guys up
looks like the conspiracy croud is out today.
It is illegal of ships to carry weapons unless they are military or customs. The fact of the matter is somalian (pirates) are hijacking ships by force.
they say they are protecting their waters but in the UK or USA ships will be told to turn round and leave waters they arent hijacked with soviet weapons.
Don’t be so easy to demonise the US and European government to support flawed theories.
@Langalibalele: I like how you first call someone a cracker then in the next word call them racist. Hypocrite much?
Poor wittle pirates…they are just misunderstood and getting a bad rap from the world! This bleeding heart liberal thinks there must be a reason the pirates have the overwhelming support of the local population.
The reason my dear is the millions and millions raked in through ransom money! We need a president with cojones instead of the gutless wuss we have in the Whitehouse – This isn’t community organizing this is terrorism! It’s time to turn loose our warships and navy seals, get the FBI out of there and stop negotiating with terrorists.
Bomb Somalia and let the Navy Seals do what they do best without interference from our lily-livered spineless president and his panty-waist foreign policy advisers.
Please learn how to spell.
ie: Pores = the plural of minute openings. Pours = the action of expressing one’s thoughts rapidly/excessively.
While I have no doubt that there is dumping and illegal fishing taking place around Somalia, I have a hard time believing that the great majority of the pirates are out to make a political statement or defend their country. Otherwise, why not capture international fishing vessels? Or vessels out dumping waste?
The fact of the matter is, there have been numerous news stories about these pirates, two of them widely broadcast – when they captured a ship full of tanks and war supplies, and this week when they captured a US-flagged ship – and the pirates have had an ample platform to state their cause. This week they’ve had the chance to voice their concerns, almost directly, to Barack Obama himself. And what do they ask for? Money. Always money. No mention of any cause or conviction other than pure, selfish greed and thuggery.
steve: And the containers used for nuclear waste can EASILY withstand the pressures involved in being dumped at the bottom of the ocean. Do your homework before posting please.
Actually I did do my homework and you should proberly get off and do yours, before you get told off. Please don’t rant.
The snippet below shows they can’t actually take depths of say, the mariana trench. Common sense really given the psi at those depths.
The containment vessel 22 must be able to withstand sinking to a depth equal to the continental shelf (approximately 1200 feet or 365 meters) without collapse.
Source: patentstorm.us
International waters are policed by the US and European Governments. Somalia is a sovereign nation with a government only in name. No defense, no services,ect.. You dump waste in their waters because no one is policing them. You fish their coast because no one is policing them. A man will not let his family starve until he has exhausted every means, legal or illegal. You defend these western governments because you don’t care about people of color. Your governments don’t either. These people only got attention because they started messing with the western world’s money, the only thing the western world cares about.
Langalibalele: This is bloodsucking Imperialism at its finest hour. Stop ARICOM! Stop the genocidal war against African people!
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You black people are so racists…everything is about you and your skin color! You must feel very inferior to the rest of humanity, to make everything about race!
These are terrorists…I don’t care if they are green, yellow or blue! Their demands are always for millions, not to stop illegal dumping! If we had a president with cojones, this would have already been over…but we have a gutless wuss in the Whitehouse and bleeding heart liberals as his foreign policy advisers. The irony is your president’s descendents were Arab slave traders in Africa in the 18th & early 19th century – wouldn’t it be a hoot if some of them were the ones who sold the black slaves to America! And you black folks thought you were electing one of your own! LOL
Yes dear Langalibalele, your president is more Arab than he is African Negro. His lineage is 43.75% Arab African; 50% White and only 6.25% African Negro according to Kenya’s records. His ancestors were all Arab Muslim’s on his father’s side and they sold Negro slaves for a living!
You gotta love it! The American black population have been duped big time by Bamby! Sealed his birth records, but not before some good investigation was done!
Hey Jazzykat, you’re as much of an intolerant, useless, hateful, narrow, ****ing MORONIC hypocrite as Langalibalele. Just lettin’ ya know.
It’s a shame, too, because you just happen to be right about the pirates (even a broken clock…). They’re criminals. They should be disposed of. If they really give half a damn about what we’re supposedly doing to them, they’d stop killing one another and get their act together and form a working government. Some people just worship brutality.
Jazzykat….. you are a fool. No one feels inferior to the rest of humanity. We are humanity. That “this would be over” comment is typical of the ignorant thinking most in the western world have. You could blow up every “pirate” in Somalia and you would not solve the problem. You could kill every Iranian, Iraqi, Afghan, African, Palestinian, Cuban,……. won’t solve the problem. The hate in your heart and need for blood would still exist. You would just eat your own. Life is not a contest to be won. Life is to be lived. You would destroy all, including yourself.
I like a good story as much as the next guy, but seriously. These aren’t noble thieves out stealing to feed their family. They’re profiteering thugs, plain and simple. One of you conspiracy nuts mentioned Occam’s Razor – wouldn’t the simplest explanation be that the people holding ships hostage for money just want… money?
A previous poster stated:
Why would Europeans sail across thousands of miles of unwatched seas to dump waste there? Why not dump it along the way in NO Countries water. They do not need to travel to the Somali coast to do this. And I do not believe they are.
This reminded me of a documentary I saw about Asians salvaging parts from USA electronic scrap. The narrator went on and on about health risks, malformed babies, unsafe conditions, etc. etc. but as he spoke, scenes were shown that didn’t gibe with his script. The little kids were clean, chubby and wore clean clothes. The exploited women appeared healthy and were doing rather clean work; sorting little nuts and bolts and such. The men were extracting components from circuit boards using a solder pot. Hardly dangerous work. And the best one: while describing horrific chemical reactions needed to extract valuable metals a man set off a red smoke flare in a dumpster, the sort of flare that would be used to attract attention by a lost soldier so he could be rescued. This was the “proof” that the scrap yard was environmentally evil. For all we know the fellow was setting off a distress signal, or was paid by the tv crew to make the smoke. He surely was not refining gold!
These people were doing this work because it was a BETTER life than they would have otherwise. Rough and unhealthy, yes. But better than their alternatives. I’ve since been s bit suspicious of western claims of abused people. Maybe they just want to destroy the competition.
Now we are told bad old Europeans are dumping tons of lead and mercury on the African coast. Yet those are two rather valuable scrap metals that other third world nations salvage for money. This doesn’t make sense. If somebody dumped a ton of lead in my back yard I’d truck it to the scrap yard and sell it.
I just don’t believe the propaganda anymore. No government ever tells the whole story.
Oh please…feelings of inferiority is the reason behind most of the racist accusations that comes from the black people in America! Everything is about the color of the skin…even these terrorists gets turned into a racist thing by Langalibalele! It’s so tiring!
The weakness and indecisiveness of our gutless president, who is clueless about leading a nation has nothing to do with race. He’s a Jimmy Carter all over again! It has everything to do with bleeding heart liberals who think they can talk and reason with insane criminals. You don’t negotiate with terrorists – you eliminate them!
Believe you me, the terrorists are watching our weakness and it may be in your own backyard they strike next! 911 will look like a picnic. Hope you are fully armed to defend yourself and your family!
heh..have you looked into the “pirates” side of the story? Do you know anything about their daily life? They haven’t had a government for more than 10 years. You’re on the internet, so I assume you have a computer, power, running water and indoor plumbing. Am I right so far? Food in your fridge? Live in a city or town with a fire department, police, trash disposal, sewage treatment? They have none of that. There aren’t even jobs there. They were fishermen, but with no government to police their waters and prevent over fishing from trespassers, they can’t even support themselves fishing. That doesn’t make being a thieving pirate ok, but before I let me family starve I’m going to do all that I can. Do they need millions of dollars to live? No, but if you’re going to be a thieving pirate, be the best thieving pirate you can be. Nothing is plain and simple. You wish it were. Plain and simple is what got the US into Iraq and Afghanistan. Nothing’s black and white. You better be able to see all the colors in the spectrum or you’ll get your nuts caught in a vise.
…You’re totally ****ing nuts, aren’t you? I’m glad Obama doesn’t meet your approval, because if he did, we’d have a bat****-crazy Prez at the helm.
Once again, though, you pluck out a grain of truth in your demented ramblings: you can’t negotiate with insane criminals. Funny thing about these guys are, they’re not insane. Quite lucid and crafty, actually.
And **** the terrorists. I’m pretty sure I have better things to think about than some zealot making an example out of me.
Poor wittle murdering thieving pirates….so misunderstood. Hey, I know, let’s send them a trillon dollar bailout. Play nice now…give them all of the money and maybe they’ll stop being terrorists on the high-seas!
what a bunch of naive hogwash from another bleeding heart liberal! I know, I know, ask Iran really nice to not build a nuke – they will love us if we’ll just play nice and maybe they won’t hurt us if they do build a nuke!
Yes sirreee – Ron’s ilk and their wuss of a president will keep us safe! Bow down and say please now!
Jazzykatt…The bible says “Don’t throw your pearls before swine”. You are a big fat porker, my friend. “Bleeding heart liberals”, “9-11″, “Jimmy Carter”, attacks on a president who hasn’t been in office for 100 days yet, while ignoring the mess laid at his feet by the little guy from Texas,Connecticut (W)…..it’s hysterical!! “Fully armed to protect my family”…… against tanks, planes and helicopters??? This isn’t the 1700’s. I can give you a 50caliber machine gun and won’t protect you and your family from a bomb dropped from a plane into your living room. Maybe you haven’t heard, but they make bombs that bust bunkers now. Penetrate hundreds of feet into the earth. It’s not going to be guys with turbans bursting into your house with 6 shooters….it’s going to be your government. Get a grip Porky!
Hey Jazzy, you do realize that no one is paying attention to your ideas, only your idiocy. You are intellectually invalid, and your ideas — especially the implied ones — point out who the REAL terrorist in the room is.
Jazzykatt…I like how you brought up Iran and their “nukes”. If I was sitting on one of the largest proven oil reserves I would want a nuke, too. I’ve got the US in my backyard, Israel dying to bomb me, Egypt and Syria waiting for me to make a mistake. Iran will be bombed this year or next. Meanwhile North Korea has a nuke and is shooting missiles over Japan… and they can barely get any attention. Too bad they don’t have oil.
Wow, heated. It stands to reason they aren’t taking the desperate measure of an open sea assault of a large vessel lightly. Though I don’t believe for one second, they are ‘trying to protect soveriogn waters’… they are never-the-less desperate. Might throw in; a product of our own neglect?
Ron – It’s not going to be guys with turbans bursting into your house with 6 shooters….it’s going to be your government. Get a grip Porky!
Well out of all your liberal hogwash you’ve been spouting, you finally got something right! It is going to be our government – little wuss Bamby is planning it all now and I’m sure you voted for him!…AND YES, he was assisted by the Cowboy from Texas for 8 years! There is no bloody difference between Democrats or Republicans – they all are working together to destroy America’s constituion and sovereignty!
The difference between the Cowboy and Bamby – is Bush did it slowly undercover, while appearing tough on terrorism – this wuss we have now is openly and rapidly dismantling our nation’s consitution and digging our economic grave! Different methods – same outcome!
Another thing, terrorists, including Hizbollah, are on American soil, coming in through our open borders with Mexico – so don’t be so naive. If they can be used by the government to assist with the job, they will be!
Of course! It’s so obvious that our entire society is nothing more than a vast and subtle scheme to…destroy itself. How could I have missed something so blatantly obvious(ly stupid)????
ncalvin: Of course! It’s so obvious that our entire society is nothing more than a vast and subtle scheme to…destroy itself. How could I have missed something so blatantly obvious(ly stupid)????
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Because you have your head buried in the sand like most liberals do…and it’s not society – it’s the government Stupid!
…and by the way Jazzykat, who the fcuk knows what tomorrow will bring? Shouldn’t we just be friends and accept that sh*t is happenening and we need to speak as one people, to change that sh*t? Geez, your like the protestant’s and catholics! Same sh*t differnt opinion, live with it! Different minds, different views, no one can really say what’s true and not. The article above has truth, not 100%, but more truth than I’m told on a daily basis. Digest and move on. You defend your position, perhaps becasue you defend it to your self?
Jazzykat… I didn’t vote for Obama. I didn’t vote for Bush. Unlike yourself I don’t believe the government, Republican, Democrat,Libertarian,Communist, Socialist, or any other is the answer. Man will dominate man to his injury. Here I am throwing pearls before swine again. You won’t get it…Porky!
Well it’s pretty indefensible to anyone else lol. What did the kooks and crazies do before there was the Internet, I wonder…
1.Excerpts from a historian about pirates of yore…check.
2.Info about the Somalian Govt. collapse…check.
3.Implicate the fault is due to Foreign Nations …check.
4.Quote a pirate leader defending his actions…check.
Where is the proof of the dumping? If the Somalians can acquire weapons why can’t they acquire video cameras to document what has been happening. As an intelligent human being I’m more inclined to believe the pirate leader, knowing full well the History of the preeminent nations, but actions speak louder than words; to what extent has the ransom money, already paid, been used to help the Somalian populace?
I have an idea. Why don’t all the liberals leave America and go help the Somali people? I mean… you know… since they care so much.
“Stop the genocidal war against African people!”
Good God, just shut up.
There’s no “genocidal war against African people.”
Seriously, just shut up.
I know it makes life more interesting and exciting to think in such dramatic, colorful terms. It’s fun to pretend that there are conspiracies, and powerful people who are out to get powerless people. But honest to God — it’s just not what the world is all about.
Nobody CARES that much, for one thing. Nobody cares about Africa — or Asia, or Antarctica, or anywhere else — to engage in some prolonged, quiet “genocidal war.” Human beings get their 80-ish years on earth to live and eat and have sex and do their thing. They’re not sitting around devoting their time to thinking about how to screw some foreign continent.
Christ almighty. Just shut up.
Comparing somali to pirates from hundreds of years ago is just idiotic. If you think of that when you think of somali, you again are idiotic. No “we” dont think of that. This article states it like its a common thing. RPGS, AK47s, motor driven boats, nothing like a wooden sailboat.
Yeah, the cheapest way to get rid of the waste was to truck it ALL the way to samolia…. What a crock of BS. A ship costs a minimum of 20k a day and most ships can’t drop cargo into the sea. Wouldn’t they just go a day out of whatever port they were at and dump it rather than traveling weeks to get to samolia. Why not in the middle of the ocean??? But the fish are OK???
There was absolutely no proof of anything in the BBC article. Just here-say and not a single picture of proof or scientific analysis.
It’s amazing how a liberal mind set can justify anything. What if i wanted to charge the author to walk down my street? The pirates aren’t looking for a loaf of bread, they want millions in a country that the yearly income is likely less than $500.
The americans went in to ensure the food was distributed instead of stolen by the war lords. The somali people chose the warlords and last I saw were quite happy the americans left. So they essentially have chosen to live in a shit hole.
All of the witty left vs. right debate aside. You write this and I’m supposed to just believe it? It could be a lie to suit your agenda; just like you are saying I have been told lies about pirates to suit a Western/European agenda. Where are your sources? Make me believe you.
Nice call Wait!
I have faith in some parts of humanity, so am guessing, about 3%. The other aspects of humanity, like greed, will account for the rest. Does that make me an optomist or cynic?
Mark says why can’t we just all be friends…typical mantra of the liberal! There is evil in this world and it’s growing more pervasive every year. You can’t play nicey nice with the enemy because frankly he won’t cooperate and will kill you as he laughs at the audacity of your ignorance!
Ron, you use the Bible when you speak of throwing pearls before swine…but before calling someone a swine, it might be wise to ask the Father about your faulty judgment.
You might personally think I’m wrong in my summations on this thread, but if I were you, I would be careful about calling a child of God a swine!
Is He going to smite Ron or something? Please, PLEASE tell me that your views on Scripture are as warped and fundamentally incorrect as your views on government! That would make my day!
Well there are some warped views on this site all right, but what can you expect coming out of San Francisco – the liberal pansy capital of the world!
There’s no country to prevent dumping or fishing so people just went ahead and did it. None of the other governments helped. But optimistically, the increased naval presence should deter future violations.
Jazzy, you sound so enlightened. Your fresh ideas and original thinking really make you stand out.
How to get internet hits for dummies:
Post a bizarro, ridiculous, liberal mumbo jumbo article like this one. Its the best they can do
Liberal? Language like that puts you in the US. Not the most respected of nations.
Maybe you should take a step back. People in a pretty poor country are taking ships. They are starving. Though you may not see that on your news. I don’t believe for one second they are protecting fishing, but they are trying to stay alive. A product, I suggested earlier, that is something of our own doing. But I don’t think you will be able to make the connection. I can’t really even call you a conservative, so unsure where your heart lays. Can you really say what is true and not? If so, your a better man than me and I concede this debate.
Jazzykat, your an idiot, “our presedent is a wuss”? so you really think his the one calling the shots? Forget it.
The US has already tried to settle the civil unrest in Somalia once before and they got their asses handed to them.
You think you would say these things to the recent somolian refugees? You wouldnt say jack s*** i hope you make an attempt so that they shoot you in your face you imperialist
f***
Leave it to the kooks in San Francisco to come up with a Blame America First slant on Thuggery and Thievery.
Yes the noble pirates are getting even with the evil capitalists by extorting millions of dollars from them. Yah right. I bet the minute they get back to port the split up the booty and give everyone and equal share too. You guys are pathetic.
Great Article funny i was just informing my colleague about the real story behind the Pirates of Somilia, I actually heard the story on from an episold of BBC’s from our own Correspondence (this was before the pirate issue became prominent) while am in no way condonling the actions of pirates and i am not naive enough to feel they are fighting for a good cause. its still true to make the world know that the west is not innocent and played a part in this thing starting in the first place
Of course our wuss president (presedent?) is not calling the shots – he couldn’t make a decision about something so serious – he’s a community organizer and a global smoozer. Plus they haven’t programmed his teleprompter what to say yet.
They need to send more than a few black hawk helicopters – maybe some nuke tipped cruise missles would do! I’m of the old school where we didn’t take crap off of anybody (where strength creates peaceful neighbors – it certainly worked with Japan after we nuked them) and I’m ashamed that this country has been overtaken by weak liberal crybabies who’s president has made us the laughing stock of the world!
You’re right — Bush did turn us (America) into a laughingstock. Thankfully we have somebody in office now who isn’t universally loathed by foreign powers. Makes it easier to get things done that way.
And your old school wasn’t exactly peaceful or ideal. I seem to recall a little something happening for about forty or so years called the COLD WAR. So you have fun with that old school crap.
RUKidding: Leave it to the kooks in San Francisco to come up with a Blame America First slant on Thuggery and Thievery. You guys are pathetic.
Kudos! RUKidding – they are pathetic! A bunch of weak liberal heart liberals whining about how bad these Terrorist have it in Somalia! Boo Hoo! I say blow them off the planet and do it today!
bombing somalia would just put the US at higher risk of terrorism and you cant just bomb every islamic nation
From an Islamic perspective these pirates are Muharibun (spreaders of corruption), this is based on the fact that they interrupt commerce and harass civilian travelers. There are no conditions that make hariba (brigandry) permissible or excusable. These pirates should hope and pray that Islamist rule doesn’t come to Somalia, because they will end up “the chop”.
As for the dumping, over fishing, etc. that’s just a fact of life on the rim of the indian ocean; if you start making noise about Somalia then you had better be prepared to do the same for pretty much the entire African and Indian coastline.
“You’re right — Bush did turn us (America) into a laughingstock.”
Actually, no. What happened is that you, and others elsewhere, DECIDED to embrace the meme that Bush was turning America into a laughingstock. It was a very deliberate choice on your part. It was all very conscious. None of it happened naturally or organically.
Bush was a terrible president. Just as Obama is a terrible president. They’re terrible because they buy into the idea of presidential “power,” embracing the notion that they are “rulers” or “leaders” — rather than spending their time in office simply defending individual rights and otherwise staying out of the way.
But that’s still different from declaring that one of them turned America into a laughingstock — not when you PUSHED the idea of America’s becoming a laughingstock the entire time, out of sheer political interest.
The current incident took place 400 miles off the coast. That would be international waters. So it’s not just about Somalian waters is it.
I say put a sub off the coast and sink any “mother ship” that comes out of a Somalian port. Put teams of armed “seal” types on the ships and when the pirates try to board, kill them and let the bodies float back to Somalia. One way or the other the problem would be ended.
The idea that nuclear waste could be gotten out of the intensely secure system that monitors it and taken thousands of miles by boat to be dumped off the Somalia coast is just beyond stupidity. It is not economically sound and why genocide against Somalians? What would that gain anyone? What would be the motive of the people behind the genocide?
ncalvin: And your old school wasn’t exactly peaceful or ideal. I seem to recall a little something happening for about forty or so years called the COLD WAR.
*************
Oh please don’t quote history, unless you understand it. The Cold War ended under Ronald Reagan…study it!
Nuking Japan ending World War II and Japan is now a friendly nation on the world stage!
You liberals think peace comes from friendly dialogue with our enemies. While Mutually Assured Destruction keeps the Soviets in check! Unfortunately, it doesn’t work with Islamic Terrorists who think if they die, they’ll get 70 virgins in heaven!
Iran’s president thinks he’s been ordained by God to bring about World War III in order to usher in the coming of the 12th Imam, Islam’s Messiah the Mahdi, and they don’t care if they die as long as they can take as many infidels with them that they can!
You are so clueless!
Oh yeah, I definitely love and embrace the idea of our country being seen in a disrespectful light. That’s truly insulting.
And it’s really not too hard to “buy into” presidential power when it’s essentially true. People all around the world look to America, and they look to the President as the most visible, concrete symbol of what America is. People follow him, making him a leader whether he chooses to be or not. So he can either deny it and push us back into isolation, or use that leverage to do something in the world.
I’m not saying that any of that is Constitutional or whatever, just that it happens.
Ignatius Loyola,
You are an idiot.. Pore is actually the correct word and perhaps you should get yourself a dictionary. Why can people not wait to correct somebody
A story about oppression from a country who favorite past time is raping females. Unemployment is at 98%, and it has about a 10% literacy rate. Given that Islam grows fastest in environments of total ignorance, the fact that it is growing in leaps and bounds in Somalia should be another indicator to the idiocy of Somali people. Im sure we can take this story at face value. Here’s an idea. Quit mating. Your genetics suck and unless you feel like flipping burgers at an AMerican fast food joint, you serve no purpose.
Excuse me but how is “cracker” not racist or offensive… That is incredibly ignorant and hypocritical. Please stop bitching about racism if you are just going to play the same game. You are not a victim.
Regarding how it is possible to fish in one area and dump in another: ocean currents?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Ocean_current_2004.jpg
Water north of the Horn doesn’t seem to have anything to do with water south of the horn.
The Cold War ended under Reagan…and Gorbachev. It wasn’t unilateral. Don’t quote history to me unless you understand it.
Mark: Maybe you should take a step back. People in a pretty poor country are taking ships. They are starving.
Well after all the millions they’ve gotten for ransom, their people should be getting some food by now, don’t you think? LOL
Me thinks you are quite naive. These guys are not sharing their bounty with the Somalia people or to build their society to sustain itself. They’re Terrorists and as long as countries keep paying their ransom demands, why should they quit this prosperous method of terror?
America is not the most respected of nations today, because we’ve become weakened by the liberal commie mindset in high levels of government. We’re in bed with the Saudi’s and OPEC who hold us hostage to their oil supply. We pacify our enemies and now have a wuss who wants to have nicey nice dialogue with unstable Islamic and Commie regimes, like Iran and Cuba, begging them to please like us.
America’s fall is coming from within and our weakness is viewed by the entire world. Nations respect Strength, they might not like you, but they will respect your strength! Unfortunately, today we have neither!
if i were stuck living in somalia struggling, i would go risk my life for the big-time raiding ships and i think yous would too
I’ve been studying this issue as a security studies student for the last two years. I like what a Commander of the Royal Navy once said… “In order to eliminate piracy, one has to eliminate the problems of Somalia.”
Now, it is important to note the causes of piracy… state collapse, environmental degradation, and the inevitable men with boats and guns, with no livelihood trying to make a living. Regardless of cause or opinion, one can not deny that this activity is having a negative impact on the security of the international economy as a whole. The question is what would be more effective, to statically combat pirates with naval forces for what surely will be generations; or does the international community as a whole need to collectively reinstate sovereignty inside the rotting corpse that was the Somali Republic.
Furthermore, in order to eliminate causes of piracy, it should also be the duty of the international community to have fishing companies and chemical companies prosecuted for degrading the Somali coastline, either in Somali Transitional Federal Government courts, or in the International Criminal Court. Environmental cleanup would also be needed in order to encourage fishermen to catch fish again, and to stop chasing after boats.
What this article fails to mention is that Somali piracy started out as an angry reaction to illegal fishing and chemical dumping, but eventually evolved into a business-profit making venture that is in many cases controlled by warlords, who in some cases conscript local fishermen to become pirates. This is why in the last three years attacks have skyrocketed to include large shipping vessels and cruise liners. Not to mention that much untraceable capital in an environment with that much anarchy breeds the perfect region for a criminal-terrorist nexus (interchange point) to occur… although there is no proof one way or another.
Piracy, regardless of cause is tantamount to a leech sucking at the jugular vein, and it will inevitably cost you, me, and many other global citizens a lot as it strains the international economy.
ahmed, on April 12th, 2009 at 9:43 am Said:
if i were stuck living in somalia struggling, i would go risk my life for the big-time raiding ships and i think yous would too.
And I would shoot you if your tried to take my boat.
ye rite, RU Kidding. your water hose against my AKs and RPGs
Robert: “In order to eliminate piracy, one has to eliminate the problems of Somalia.”
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In order to eliminate Islamic Terrorists and suicide bombers, I guess we should just give up all our lands and require all people to bow down to Allah and convert to Islam!
These thugs aren’t sharing the wealth with the people of Somalia. If they cared about their country, things would be better for their people by now with all the millions they’ve confiscated from nations who have paid their ransom.
Liberals always make excuses for evil – it must be their circumstances, it must be a bad childhood, it must be they didn’t have opportunities in life. That is the liberal mindset – heaven forbid, people take responsibility for their actions and suffer the consequences of doing evil.
The give me, take care of me, shiftless unproductive members of society, even in America, expect the Government to take care of them. Sickening!
still that wasnt the point, living in somalia, being in THEIR shoes you would consider doing the same
Great story. Like I always say when the news runs a “boogey Man” story. There are two sides to every tale. Terrorist is a label used today by the corpoate media for anyone who is against the corporate U.S. empire, just like “commie” was during the so called cold war. Jazzy is not a terrorist, just a buffoon. Don’t judge all gun owners by this dope. Like the Somali “pirates” going against the U.S. navy, most second ammendment advocates know the might of the U.S. government. I am fully aware that a populace armed with semi automatic rifles would be decimated by a Marine rifle squad. A 500 lb. bomb dropped in my living room would be my demise. At least I would die like a man, instead of living on my knees like a coward.
Besides, there’s over a miilion armed citizens. They can’t kill us all. Just ask the Viet Cong.
ahmed, on April 12th, 2009 at 10:08 am Said: “ye rite, RU Kidding. your water hose against my AKs and RPGs”
Make no mistake, I do not and would not just have water hoses. Think you are the only one that has arms?
I see the favicon for this page is the pan-african flag. Guess that says something.
To RU Kidding, lets see who survives, your single tranport vessel with crew against the whole starving coast of somalia and i do believe the pirates can get around quicker
El Che: Like the Somali “pirates” going against the U.S. navy, most second ammendment advocates know the might of the U.S. government.
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The might of the U.S. government – yeah right! We might be the most powerful nation on earth, but we’re acting like a wuss! The pirates are testing the metal of our liberal commie president – and he of course will fail because he’s never made an executive decision in his life – his failure, is America’s failure!
The U.S. Government is being immasculated, our economy gutted and Constitution shredded by those we’ve put into power! The first and second amendment are next to be stripped, so get prepared!
Four years is a long time…the 1st 100 days B. Hussein Obama has been a busy little bee…so my advice to those with an ounce of wisdom, is to stock up on arms and ammunition, non-perishable food and water and hunker down, because before Bamby and this government is through, you’re gonna need it!
It is hilarious how you call someone racist for being black and caring about a group of people who also happen to be black. The fact of the matter is, ignorant fuck, that racism is the reason that Somalia is being taken advantage of, and the fact is that white people run the world. Prove me wrong. Instead of giving facts to support your claims that Somalians are terrorists you exhibit typically ignorant racist thought and propose to bomb them. Wow. This is why the world is the way it is right now, because ignorant racist fucks like you have been running the world. Now that we have a president who doesn’t think the same way you call him gutless and a wuss. You’re really good at name calling, yet you show us all that you are just dumber than shit. So go jump off a cliff and kill yourself you piece of shit.
might of the US… lets see you stop north korea, no wait, they have nukes plus you wouldnt want to mess china because then you would really get your asses handed to you, then theres Iran but you couldnt want to mess with them neither because they have collaborated with n. korea
JazzyKat, I bet Obama could KICK YOUR ASS, one-on-one, mano e mano! Now who’s the wuss? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
ahmed, on April 12th, 2009 at 10:21 am Said: “To RU Kidding, lets see who survives, your single tranport vessel with crew against the whole starving coast of somalia and i do believe the pirates can get around quicker”
Yes we shall see who survives.
Are you saying that the whole coast of somalia is in those boats or has them? I doubt that.
FuckJazzykat, on April 12th, 2009 at 10:28 am Said: “ignorant fuck” “ignorant racist fucks like you” “You’re really good at name calling you piece of shit.”
LOL. You are your own worst enemy
Langalibalele – you don’t need to spew your filth with another moniker using my name to boot! LOL Scared to post under your own name?
When you have cock-roaches infesting everything, you don’t run around trying to kill them individually, you terminate the source! The source is Somalia – so if bombing this god-forsaken country will eliminate the cock-roaches roaming the high-seas, then it’s time we bomb the source!
You made this a racist thing by claiming this was a genocidal war against African people! Blacks make everything about race! This is about Terrorists that happen to be thugs who are terrorizing the high-seas!
ahmed
Your ego is making promises you can’t deliver on.
Obama kick someone’s ass?
LOL
That guy is is a total pussy!
“racism is the reason that Somalia is being taken advantage of”
Actually, no, it’s not.
Once again — as I pointed out above — you’re making the mistake of thinking that people CARE that much. They don’t. They don’t care enough about some thing called “Somalia” to bother being racist about it.
Do you follow what I’m saying?
Sometimes stuff just is what it is. Not everything is the result of breathless, dramatic stuff like “racism.” I know it’s exciting to picture the world that way. It makes everything so much more interesting. I mean, gosh, it’s like living in a movie!
But usually, nah… Mostly stuff is just kind of boring. Some places have more problems than others. It’s not a conspiracy. It’s not the product of exciting stuff like “power paradigms” and the like. Sometimes crap is just the way it is, and it’s not really anybody’s fault.
I know that means less excitement and dramatic self-righteousness for you. But shoot, man — just focus on yourself, and hooking up with a mate, and feeding your kids. We’re just human beings. That’s all any of us are here to do. Nobody is out to get you. I know it’s disappointing to hear, but they simply don’t care enough about you to do that.
The quotation from the pirate speaking to Alexander the Great comes to us from St. Augustine 800 years later, and I don’t believe there are other records of it. Its factual authenticity is a bit dubious but its a great quotation nonetheless!
So much idiotic racism. “Just don’t believe,” whitey says! Yeah, if you “just don’t believe,” negative reporting isn’t true. Just shut your eyes! Tell yourself it isn’t so. Is there anyone out there who can’t see Europe paying the mob to “drop off” container full of nuclear waste into the Indian Ocean? Look at the top at the despicable words of the poster who asked whether or not we had a shortage of niggers, and it is easy to see that, that sentiment is exactly why it could happen. LOL checkmates itself with its racist and stupid argument. At the most important levels, the lives of Africans mean very little. They are to me, every bit as worthy as some of the more fortunate yet stupid posters here.
Oh, and Dave, you don’t believe racism is involved? Can you imagine dropping off the care package of nuclear waste off the shores of the French Riviera, or the China Sea, or off the coast of California? You think things “just happen, man,” well, I’ve got news for you: humans are extremely calculating–children included. Hell, even animals are calculating. What part of innocent land do you live? In the capital, naivete?
RU Kidding, on April 12th, 2009 at 10:46 am Said:
“Yes we shall see who survives.
Are you saying that the whole coast of somalia is in those boats or has them? I doubt that.”
no shit not every somalian has a boat but im pretty sure they enough boats to over run a SINGLE TRANPORT vessel.
Havent you heard? they have been doing it for the past few years now
Like I said with black people, everything is about race! Everyone is a racist but them – yet that’s all they think about and talk about – so who are the racists?
White people don’t care about race – America has prominant and successful Asian, Mexicans, Africans, Arabs and many other races in this melting pot we call home! People (any race) can be successful if they strive to be. It’s the low-life blood-suckers that prey off the government that whine about how unfair it all is. Blacks blame it on their blackness and whites blame it on society. Affirmative action gives these poor do-nothing blacks a special foot up…but it’s never enough! Their hand is always in the governmental pocket to “give me” more!
I say get up off your butt and go to work for a living…white and black!
But I degress….if the people of Somalia want a better life, they need to rise up and kick these thugs off their land!…but they too aimlessly sit back hoping for a few breadcrumbs to be dropped from the endless bounty of piracy!
kilgatron, on April 12th, 2009 at 10:54 am Said: ” So much idiotic racism. “Just don’t believe,” whitey says!”
Whitey? isn’t that a racist term?
kilgatron, on April 12th, 2009 at 10:54 am Said: “Is there anyone out there who can’t see Europe paying the mob to “drop off” container full of nuclear waste into the Indian Ocean?”
I can’t see it.
Would that be profitable?
kilgatron, on April 12th, 2009 at 10:54 am Said: “Look at the top at the despicable words of the poster who asked whether or not we had a shortage of niggers, and it is easy to see that, that sentiment is exactly why it could happen.”
Yah because one poster one place said it makes it happen. You over value the importance of that sentiment
kilgatron, on April 12th, 2009 at 10:54 am Said:”At the most important levels, the lives of Africans mean very little.”
Really?
Isn’t that in defiance of the point you are trying to make?
“humans are extremely calculating–children included. Hell, even animals are calculating.”
This is exactly right. (Make sure to tell your progressive/pacifist friends about this little observation, by the way — they seem to be under the impression that humans are perfectible and that the world would be hunky dory if we’d just pretend that everybody is nice.)
Nonetheless, that doesn’t mean “racism” is part of the equation. You’re assigning a very specific motivation and mindset where they don’t exist. For God’s sake, nobody is “out to get Somalia” because a certain race happens to dwell there.
Most folks in the world, when bothered to give it any thought at all, would tell you they absolutely RELISH the prospect of Africa getting its act together. They would LOVE for its people to contribute much more to global wealth and culture than they presently do.
The world isn’t against you or yours, man. It’s just not. Lighten up and try to enjoy being alive. You’re only here once. Beware those cold-calculating fellow humans, because you’re right — they do exist. But don’t trip yourself up by imbuing them with “racist” motives. That’s just clouding the mix for you and everybody else. It’s a waste of precious emotional energy and mental airtime.
@RUKidding. Your entire bloodsucking SOCIETY was built upon stealing this land and slavery. American Indians were massacred so that crackers could take over the prairies and everything else. The economy of the South was built upon the backs of Africans, while lazy shiftless good-for-nothings like you lived off of wealth that WE created. Your sorry pale ass comes from Europe, you didn’t spring up from the soil here.
How is calling you “whitey” racist, compared to lynching, jim crow, assassinations of Salvador Allende and Maurice Bishop by US forces, massacres in Vietnam and Korea for US Imperialism, slavery in the Congo for SONY, the reservation system that still exists? You ARE kidding, whitey.
kilgatron
You have to assume first that the reports of nuclear waste being dropped off somalia are true, which seems to be what you are basing you whole argument on. Has that been proven yet?
And why is it ok for you to use the term “whitey”, but someone else can’t use the term nigger? Isn’t that pretty hypocritical?
@jazzykat: WTF? You are nobody, too. Jazz comes from Africa, the word comes from Africa, and without Africans like me you wouldn’t even be able to tie your shoes. Whoops! Upside ya dog smelling head.
Langalibalele, on April 12th, 2009 at 11:15 am Said: “@RUKidding. Your entire bloodsucking SOCIETY was built upon stealing this land and slavery. American Indians were massacred so that crackers could take over the prairies and everything else. The economy of the South was built upon the backs of Africans, while lazy shiftless good-for-nothings like you lived off of wealth that WE created.”
How old are you? What’s this “WE” BS
Langalibalele, on April 12th, 2009 at 11:15 am Said: “@RUKidding. Your sorry pale ass comes from Europe, you didn’t spring up from the soil here.”
Neither did you
Langalibalele – black slavery was over 100 years ago and many white Americans died in the Civil War…so get over it all ready. Mexican slavery is the new in thing today anyway, so you’re really out of touch! Illegals working for big corporations for pennies on the dollar, just to live here. Blacks, who want everything handed to them, hate this country with ever fiber of their being! We’ll give you a ticket to Somalia if that’s what you want!
Your racism ooses from every stroke you type and your hate for America is palatible. Your type is the very reason so many blacks remain in the ghettos and drug infested neighborhoods of our cities where black-on-black crime reigns surpreme. Hate begats hate and you give the hard-working successful people of your race a bad name!
Langalibalele:
I think you need to acquaint yourself with the concept of “presentism.” Also with what’s sometimes called “the historian’s fallacy.”
Langalibalele, on April 12th, 2009 at 11:15 am Said: “@RUKidding. Your entire bloodsucking SOCIETY was built upon stealing this land and slavery.”
And if it weren’t for “whitey” your race wouldn’t have anywhere to get it’s welfare checks from.
Now you simple crackers want to “reason”, a la the tabula rasa method. That’s a typical misinformation technique employed on any FOX News broadcast, treating history as if it’s the least contextual, least relevant point of departure when your views are at stake. Nattering nabobs of numbskullery, who jumped on the slavery issue to start.
Breezing past that, you haven’t moved Maurice Bishop and Patrice Lumumba out of this picture, so how can start where you want to pick up the discussion, blank slate? And who will it be today, the Somalis, right. I kno that sucker game and the rules don’t change.
The reservation system isn’t over like 100 years ago. Neither is jim crow or lynching. I remember Jim Crow in my lifetime, seen it up close. Foul as your momma’s breath.
While you fools remain hung up on being privileged to call me a nigger, that unhoods your low-level of intelligence. It exposes your crass inability to form a valid point on a subject superior to your feeble understanding.
Hay, isn’t stormfront missing a few hoods; why don’t you slink your vapid asses back over there.
And if it weren’t for “whitey” your race wouldn’t have anywhere to get it’s welfare checks from.
**************
That’s a good one RU. ROFL
I think you called yourself a nigger. White people don’t use that word – it’s not politically correct! LOL
We call you blood-sucking low-lifes who live off government handouts, affirmative action and our hard working tax dollars!
Dumping of waste: Criminal
Hijacking ships: Criminal
They BOTH belong in jail. One does not decriminalize the other. All the bombast doesn’t change the morality of the situation.
Rule of the internet: don’t feed the trolls.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unite_and_Resist_Campaign/message/%20http://terryhowcott.com/greenspace.asp?id=1251
ANNOUNCEMENT:
The American Navy just rescued Captain Richard Phillips, killed 3 of the pirates and captured the other one. Fox News reports our military is bringing him to the U.S. for prosecution! Finally we took action!
who cares, nuke the whole country.. they are useless
Langalibalele, here’s the real thing: What are you so pissed off about? Nobody is out to get you. Seriously — nobody is out to hurt you, or hold you back. Again: Nobody CARES enough about you to do that.
People are wrapped up in their lives, man. They’re navigating through their little 80-whatever years here on Earth, focused on themselves. Sometimes they do foul shit. Sometimes they hurt others. But nobody is FOCUSED on you, aiming to get you because you happen to look a certain way.
They’re just not. Stop being so narcissistic. Stop attributing motives to others, and let them speak for themselves. Let their words mean what they intend them to mean.
Because here’s the REAL real thing: You and I, or anybody on this forum right here, could probably go sit down and drink some beer and look at girls and talk about sports and laugh about that stupid thing that so-and-so did the other night. We’re just a bunch of guys. Not everything has to be so grim and serious and ill-motivated. Not everything has to be a goddamned drama.
Honestly, it’s sad to see such a waste of time and energy — all that angry acting-out, devoted to stuff that isn’t even real. It’s just… shit, man, you’re throwing away the precious hours of your own life. For something that isn’t real. Why? Come on. Just stop. For your own sake. Stop throwing all that time away.
the country is totally useless as are the people. dont care, turn it into a walmart
Hey ahmed
Guess your buddies didn’t win.
it’s pretty funny how backwards-ass some of you people are. Most of what plagues black society was introduced by the white man- if not directly then more subversively. Kids in ghettos have no chance at a future, so they turn to the same drugs that white society introduced. It’s a vicious cycle propagated by racist attitudes like yours that “if black people don’t like it then why don’t they go to college?”
Read some fucking malcolm x.
Jesus how much can you niggers distort the truth to make Whitey Look bad?
“it’s pretty funny how backwards-ass some of you people are. Most of what plagues black society was introduced by the white man-”
Sigh.
Have some dignity, man. You’re not a sheep. You’re a human being. You’re not a helpless victim, unable to make decisions for yourself. You’re a human being.
Stop insulting other human beings by characterizing them as helpless sheep. They’re not. They’re strong, empowered with free will, and capable of making the decisions they want to make for themselves.
You have a low, disgusting view of humanity. You don’t respect individuals. You think human beings are sheep. You’re disgraceful.
“Jesus how much can you niggers distort the truth to make Whitey Look bad?”
Dude, just stop it. Stop being an antagonistic idiot.
sounds like ol’ jazzy needs to pull himself out of glenn beck’s ass
The lifestyle of luxury we enjoy in the West is built on the suffering and slavery of millions. Our system uses the darker side of human nature to exploit resources from those who have nothing but the land.
It’s all a repeat of the 17th century colonisation, but really – we should know better shouldn’t we? These guys are just trying to survive, which is exactly what YOU would do if faced with the same thing. Freedom fighters or terrorists? It’s all subjective, people.
Great article. I really enjoyed it.
Langalibalele, it’s hard to take your comments seriously when you use offensive terminology.
Human nature is to exploit. Whether someone came early or late to a place doesn’t matter anymore. It’s how we care for each other, and for the land, while we’re here.
nbraf, on April 12th, 2009 at 1:12 pm Said:”sounds like ol’ jazzy needs to pull himself out of glenn beck’s ass”
And you need to pull your head out of your ass
ENOUGH. I would love to see how you lot would act if this conversation were happening face-to-face. Frankly, I’ve just about had it with people who think it’s acceptable to insult and slander folks on the internet. I think that no purpose could possibly be served by posting vitriolic ‘flame’ messages. Can’t we just tell each other “I think you’re wrong” without turning it into a pissing contest? Please don’t hesitate to bring in information you think will sway the readers of the article, things the author may have missed, or perhaps deliberately ignored, but there comes a point where discussions like these turn into shouting matches where there is no way to win. I’m not going to single anyone out, we’ve all said too much in our time, myself included, but let’s just try to get along without throwing around words like “idiot.” Sometimes I think we forget that there are actual people behind these posts, people who can feel insulted and hurt by our comments. I’m not going to ask you all to kiss and make up, but please try to think about showing some basic decency in the future.
random, on April 12th, 2009 at 1:39 pm Said: “These guys are just trying to survive, which is exactly what YOU would do if faced with the same thing. Freedom fighters or terrorists? It’s all subjective, people.
Cut the crap!
Being a terrorist or pirate or any other anti social behavior is evident and obvious to all including the perpetrators. The rest is just weak justification and rationalization and are just poor excuses for bad behavior.
Being a pirate on the high seas has no noble side
Somalia is like most African countries. Their own government has destroyed their country. Screw the pirates.
i wish people would stop generalising about things that cannot be generalised….
like….
all ‘pirates’ are very unlikely to be the same….there are likely to be ones with good motivations and those with erm, less good ones….
what is the definition of pirates anyway these days? maybe a pirate can be a terrorist, but not all pirates are terrorists…..just as a ‘land lubber’ can be a terrorist but no all ‘land lubbers’are????
i hope that there can be some good proof either way on that there horizon…..just as the video of that policeman attacking that guy at the g20 protest showed what some did not believe…..surely united nations could investigate and help out too….
i wish everyone would stop insulting eachother too….how does that help matters? a good discussion of all sides can be done without insults y’know
(saying that from my own actions i know that it is easier said than done!
still it’s worth trying to do tho-
more likely that something good will come of it then i reckon)
“Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean”
BULLSHIT. Nuclear waste does not come in barrels. We don’t live on the Simpson’s, we live in real life. Uranium fuel rods are a solid before they are used for nuclear power and remain solid rods after they are spent.
You’re hurting your position by pumping it full of bullshit buzzwords to try and scare us. Are they dumping chemicals? Maybe. But now you’ve lost all credibility by blatantly lying to us, filling your article with nuclear this and nuclear that.
Thanks t k, nice response!
And as for Joseph, nuclear waste is stored in containment vessels, some of which do indeed have the appearance of “vast barrels.” And not all nuclear waste is spent fuel rods. The coolant and worn mechanical parts of a reactor are also nuclear waste.
But I would like to see some more evidence.
thankful this easter for a communicator like Ron. lots of trolls on this site. i pray they will find the compassion to imagine life as an African. its hard to get through to the heart after decades of mass media poisoning. but, i have faith that its possible. life is for the living, not the taking. that’s what its all about, folks.
Your are all acting like animals. Reading through this makes me sick. However it certainly explains why the world is in such a state.
The article is probably full of misconstrued information, however the author didn’t just pull it all out of his ass. If you people are seriously doubting it that much do your own research and right your own damn article on the subject.
No one is going to take anyone else seriously with the kind of childish babble going on here.
It really is a pitty that not even a single person on this board can act like a decent person.
Oh and Langalibalele, no one will ever take you seriously so long as you continue to use the word cracker, its derogatory and extremely rude. It would be just as bad as me to refer to you as a nigger. People like you are the reason racism still exists. You seem like you fight for a cause but you will never make any progress with the kind of judgements you are making.
You know what, you’re right. Armed robbery is justified.
t k, on April 12th, 2009 at 2:34 pm Said: “there are likely to be ones with good motivations and those with erm, less good ones….”
What a load of crap.
How can a thief of property or life be considered “good” in motivation or deed, or by any other stretch of the imagination.
Why don’t you invite them into you home so they can rob and kill you.
First of all, i need to see evidence of Nuclear waste being deposeted in Somalian coast. However seeing how the government is hiding so much information and manipulating information from the American people, will make me think otherwise.
All in all, I am with the author in this one. Out of the blue, there is pirates attacking foreign ship. There must be a cause and effect. The cause must be the illegal dumping of deathly chemical to Somalian coastline and they taking action into their own hand.
P.S: Any racist comments should be happily ignored. That just shows their ignorance.
Alexender, on April 12th, 2009 at 4:03 pm Said: “Out of the blue, there is pirates attacking foreign ship. There must be a cause and effect. The cause must be the illegal dumping of deathly chemical to Somalian coastline and they taking action into their own hand.”
“Out of the blue?” This has been going on for years.
“Cause and effect?” How about GREED
And this leads you to the conclusion that there “MUST BE ILLEGAL DUMPING”. What a leap of BS logic!
THESE GUYS ARE THIEVES DON”T YOU GET IT? THEY DO THIS FOR THE MONEY !
How stupid and/or dense are you
Hmmm…….
You’d think if there was any illegal dumping going on that there’d be at least a few pictures taken by those who have witnessed it.
Where are the pics of all this supposed dumping?
eshock is rite, life is to live and not to be taken away.
Despite the cruelty that the U.S running a mockery of the American people by manipulating the media such as FOX, it a pity that people just stand their and accept it. I speak for all who wants to make government work for us and not the other way around. A peoples government that we want and control. The day that U.S will have absolute control over our life is coming with their absurd laws, restriction of life, and manipulation of the media and I’m not just standing around to accept it. Changes to all this will come in one form, Revolution.
However, all this is pointless without your cooperation. So make a difference and change the U.S to a country we want, not a country “they” want.
If there are people dumping, we should stop them, if they are overfishing, we should stop them, all of this talk about racism and other bullshit does not help.
nothing is more annoying than reading racism on forums like this.. calling someone a “cracker” just after his racist remark does not make you any better.. it’s quite the reverse.. all of you get over yourselves.. and the war against africa?? really?? shut the fuck up.. it goes on all over the world.. everywhere god damnit get over yourselves already.. it’s top to take a step back and look forward for a change.. you all look at your fucking feet tip toeing around shit and getting defencive about nothing.. yeah i may not be some real smart person throwing facts or missleading information i call facts out to the plate.. but you are no better by a long shot if you’re still blinded by the color of one’s skin .. if there should be any killing.. i’d rather it be of ignorant racists like you.. all of you.. it’s people like you who go back and forth all the time stirring up more and more emotion and hate .. not getting to any point.. and not being heard clearly because of your damned hypocritical bullshit..
so please.. take a few deep breaths… and if you can’t think clearly after that.. just don’t talk.. at all .. not on public forums anyway where you know people of all races religions and what not are going to be reading. go to your kkk sites or where-ever it is you need to go where you can bash other races without bothering anyone else..
Johnson: Despite the cruelty that the U.S running a mockery of the American people by manipulating the media such as FOX, it a pity that people just stand their and accept it. I speak for all who wants to make government work for us and not the other way around. A peoples government that we want and control. The day that U.S will have absolute control over our life is coming with their absurd laws, restriction of life, and manipulation of the media and I’m not just standing around to accept it. Changes to all this will come in one form, Revolution.
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I disagree…Fox News is the only media outlet on TV that is giving a somewhat balanced view of the news. MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS…filters all news with slanted spin and is controlled by the government. All they offer is propaganda and lies to the gullible masses.
Revolution? Join the American Tea Party on April 15 that is taking place in cities all over this nation. Who reported it? MSNBC? CNN? I don’t think so! Fox News reported it, but even they took their time about it. These TEA Parties have been going on since February and already thousands are marching in cities. 5,000 to 6,000 showed up in Orlando Florida in March and NO media, including Fox showed up or covered it!
American’s are sick of taxation without representation…sick of the massive trillions and trillions spent on bailouts…sick of the heavy taxation…and sick of the government taking over our nation! You betcha, Revolution is coming!
eshock: i pray they will find the compassion to imagine life as an African.
Life is what you make it, red, yellow, black or white! Black people have been given more advantages in this country than any other race of people and they still bellyache! I for one am sick of everything being turned into a racist debate and I’m sick of the whining blacks who blame all whites for their status in life. People like Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, just to name a few…keep the pot stirred. People put Obama in office to prove they’re not racists…that mistake is going to be the destruction of this nation!
At least the BBC was smart enough to not allow comments on its website.
Any newsworthiness this story may have started with has certainly been decimated by the banal, plebeian commentary.
Shame.
This has to be the dumbest article published this side of the new millennium. This it’s-outrageous-and-irrational-and-unbelievable-so-it-must-be-true mentality running rampant through the Internet is really getting out of hand.
I think reading this article made me dumber.
What if President Obama is really a Neoconservative?
My name is Robert and I write a column for MSNBC/Newsvine. I have also done a few illustrated articles on the piracy problem in Somalia.
I have to disagree with the nature of the article, although I’ll allow that overfishing is part of the problem, and one of the reasons for the current pirate problem.
However, piracy in Somalia is nothing new. It’s been going on for hundreds of years. But the ransoms collected by these guys does not go to ‘feed the people of Somalia’. It goes to things like this: To pay off local warlords, to pay off government officials in Puntland and Somalia, to pay off port officials who allow the pirates to park their stolen ships and keep crews hostage, to purchase faster boats, GPS and computer gear, as well as RPG’s and heavy machine guns. And…to line the pockets of the pirates, of course.
The pirates also pay off the leaders of a known terror group in Somalia – the Al-Shibaab. The US State Department believes that now some members of the pirate gangs are also members of Al-Shibaab, if for nothing else to safeguard the monetary interests of Al-Shibaab…
It’s hard to believe how quickly and without question, people will believe a comment made by someone they’ve never met….
How many times are you going to trust our media? I thought this story to be suspect when it began. How long does it take Navy Seals to take out a bunch of unsophisticated (relatively speaking) “pirates”? days? That’s is so laughable. Try hours.
This is a scam. Smells real bad. But, of course, you loyal Americans still have your heads up your ass. The media (jew controlled) has just provided a justification for US and other world powers to patrol these areas and begin the raping of resources and destruction of habitat. Perhaps you should study the history of the US to see how we have performed these duties in the past.
Its about time someone wrote about this. I don’t think its a scam, I know its a scam. Anything on major media is a scam and is presented to manipulate, intimidate and misinform the gullible sheep.
You gullible naive americans…get your act together and stop trusting those that have screwed you for decades. You only make yourself appear as fools by accepting at face value everything that is put under your nose.
Hey I think they should have killed them all on day one! And…then bombed the cock-roaches hiding in Somalia. Eliminate the problem at the source!
I’m all for a good robust exchange of opinion, but can’t the moderator kick off the racists? Please? Hate speech has got to be over the line. There’s a line, right?
No one is going to ship anything, waste or not to Somalia … since such a boat will itself be pirated.
The pirates are just controlled by warlords and he piracy is supporting these real oppressors of the Somalias.
Dam right we ought to go in there with guns blazing, kill the pirates and set up a government. This would improve everyone’s lives — those who are on shore and those who are off.
I’ve just read the article and damn that some fukked up shit. But terrorists are terrorists… and heck fukkin’ NO I would NEVER ever try to negotiate with them!
Jazzykat your very much right about liberal idiots! Apparently these cup-cake fools haven’t got a clue about what terrorists would do to them. Example, they’ll get a 12 year old boy to cut your head off or send a suicide bomber to greet yah along with 50 of your liberal friends who were “peacefully” sipping on their organic tea and then KA-BOOM! LOL
Get real, peace cannot be obtain without violence because there are way too many crazy fukktards out there with their ego rammed up too far in their asses!
Fact: what did the liberals of the 1960’s accomplished? Shiet!
And about our current president… ain’t done nothing productive for Americans yet and will continue not doing jack crap! They don’t give a F about us! Believe that!
The article title is misleading. We’re not being lied to, we’re simply not having the whole story told to us. Bit by bit that is starting to come out now.
As far as the piracy is concerned, good for them scaring off illegal trawlers, but hijacking passing cargo ships and oil tankers is completely over the line.
Why has the lack of government in Somalia not been addressed as a solution to the problem? If they have not rebuilt a government after 15 years, we should probably try to help them.
I’m going to comment now that I just went back and read the comments section fully, and it’s back-to-back full of the most bigoted idiots from both sides of the political spectrum, half chanting “kill the niggers” the others chanting “kill the crackers.”
Both sides of you are equally dumb.
Please repeat after me____A priate is a thief
Please repeat after me____People who use race as an excuse are liars
Please repeat after me____A terrorist is a thief of lives
Please, stop acting like me 5th graders and grow up. Please check your facts before reporting them as true
How did I feel when I heard an American Ship was taken Hostage..I really beleived our goverment was going to take care of this priate group once and for all, they had been hijacking ships like they were on a shopping spree…except for one thing…this is against the law…against the law means its illigal…means your a crook, stealing somethings that dosen’t belong to you….Ransom money is ransom money, its taking something that dosen’t belong to you and asking someone to pay you for it
Lets just call a spade a spade…”nothing rasist about this” its just a phrase…THE PIRATES ARE PIRATES..THEIVES..
Theives who care nothing about the people of Africa or any other Country…Just Theives
Other countries are dumping waste in Somalia’s water yet still fishing there? Weird. Awesome article though. I guess, if the US didn’t want their ships to be taken by pirates, they should have stayed out of Somalian waters. I wonder if this is move from the term “terrorist” to “pirate”–new administration, new words, just like they don’t call people “commies” anymore…
What a bunch of sissy cry babies these wingnuts are! And the ignorance – don’t you guys ever read a book? Test Obama’s METAL? It’s mettle dopey. Every other word is mis-spelled, and they are all whine, whine, whine. The red line under the word means MIS-SPELLED – DUH!!!
You guys really do need to go crawl in a hole somewhere with an ammo box to lay your head on and a bunch of guns to keep you warm – and take plenty of batteries, because you are surely afraid of the dark….
The fact is, you are in the DEEP minority. America has left you and your paranoia behind. Your ideology has been tried and proven an abject failure. Now all you have left is whining and name calling, So shiver and shake and buy all the guns and ammo you can, and stay indoors.
You know you are being tracked through the Internet too, and the more you type, the closer THEY get to GETTING YOU. Probably best to just not get on the Net anymore, and you’ll have one less thing to be scared of… think about it.
What a bunch of little weenie cry babies!
One other thing – I thought you right-wing nut jobs were all for NO GOVERNMENT. Just look at Somalia and you can see where America would be if you got your way!!!!
Strangely in the midst of all this: I don’t believe this/I definitely believe/where’s the proof?/you suck/no you suck, nobody seems to have bothered having a look for any backing/refuting information.
Well, here’s a start:
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2005-02/2005-02-23-voa23.cfm
This…
“Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the U.N. envoy to Somalia, tells me: “Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury – you name it.”
…is quite similar to this:
“And the waste is many different kinds. There is uranium radioactive waste. There is lead, and heavy metals like cadmium and mercury. There is also industrial waste, and there are hospital wastes, chemical wastes – you name it.”
The latter from a story on the same topic from Al-Jazeera on October 11, 2008 http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2008/10/2008109174223218644.html
Not saying plagiarism, but there are some uncanny similarities and Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah quoted throughout. Any explanation?
You are being lied to by Johann Hari.
This is mostly a load of crap lies.
Hi !I think that The United States Of America has came along way in its racisim. Race is what has completed our country and determind its fate for years. It is in violence that seeks violence and will continue to do so without using a regulatory system to deal with over sea cooruption. It will take a team of countries to develope this regulatory sytem to create an offical tactick to properly disregared the greed of the piracy. The USA had done what was expected in negotions to resolve the issue with an example to all. The captain was saved but sadly money was more important than life and those perished for it. It is not one race to another to blame but its finner components to undertand the baseline of the issues. So many races have suffered to build the Counrty we call The Untited Sates of America. All has suffered in one way or an other. Lets remember the Irish and the Asian communties and so on. Its not just those of color who suffered but those of all color who have suffered. Frankly the word color is even inopropriate to mention but the word civilization. keep talking but don’t stop doing …..
Personally,as a white Australian I find the racial or racist tinges explored here through put downs etcetera,pretty boring and must be a way of exercising the mind.The American Capt. appears to have been very courageous all along,not knowing what would happen to himself,whilst taking responsibility for others by becoming the kidnapped at sea.But I also note a lot of drama has occured about this by governments,not the least of all by Hilary Clinton painting all possible pirates with the with the same tar brush. The plight of the general Somalian is very sad,it isn’t important completely to review history to know that.And these Somalian pirates in their own desperate way,have a sort of bravery too. This indicates plenty in itself,for where there maybe a tar and feathered reality there could also be a whitewash.A palindrome of meaning rather than spelling backwards and forwards.So if some dumping and illegal fishing has taken place in Somalian waters,it could also mean with the Saudis as victims of pirates a bigger fish to fry. So how could the underhand and only partially exposed American interests take advantage of desperate pirates,in ways that are large amounts!? Dual sides of the sword introducing the certainty of pirates as enemy whilst the uncertainty of their behaviour is problematic.Shareholdings and prices of oil yo-yoed etc.Diversionary tactics and building up the theme park news for the coming few weeks.Now what are the palindromes around high seas piracy!? I think Capitol Hill has tried to take advantage of the man from Underhill. It is spring in the U.S.A.!? Dont make waves,or wavemakers dont!?
I cannot believe that anyone, even ignorant blacks believe this nonsense. Please go back to Africa.
I can’t believe there are so many odious right wing tossers infesting the internet, thank god they’re out of government for the time being
“Every thing the USA does is wrong.” “If it wasn’t for the West, the world would be such a better place.”
BULLSH!T!!!! Im sick and tired of this anti-westerners crap. Name one civilization EVER that hasn’t used the same tactics and propaganda to some degree.
To put it bluntly, the world is over populated and obviously there isnt enough resources, or knowledge for these people to survive in a civil manner. Their fault or not, it’s survival of the fittest. As harsh and as ruthless as it sounds, it’s practical.
Not only should we start terminating these pirates on sight, but we should go into their villages and send a real message to all of them.
Hell, even fellow somalians were urging these pirates to turn over the captian, full well-knowing that they were all going to be popped. I hope these three men enjoy their virgin goats while dining with Hades.
Well at least one thing good come out of this. The Pirates will think twice before hijacking a U.S. ship in the future. Even if we had lost a heroic Captain, the U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists! I was afraid with our liberal president that policy, like so many others since he took office, may have changed. Thankful to see it has not!
The point – if Somalia pirates hijack an American vessel…they WILL DIE!…end of story!
Another point: Our Navy Seals and Special Ops are the best in the world. Don’t mess with the U.S.A.
Well thank god the US has a black president. Now we won’t look too hypocritical if there’s yet another military adventure, this time in Africa. I don’t condone crime of any kind but what are people expected to do when their families are starving? So many of these comments harp on the validity of the toxic dumping issue, yet none of the article’s detractors mention the fish theft. Stealing a country’s natural resources will turn people to crime in order to feed themselves, duh.
R said: I don’t condone crime of any kind but what are people expected to do when their families are starving? Stealing a country’s natural resources will turn people to crime in order to feed themselves, duh.
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You’re buying into the garbage of this article! These pirates are not hijacking ships to feed their poor starving people. If they were, with all the millions they’ve collected from dumb nations who pay, the people would be eating steak by now! It’s greed pure and simple and the people of Somalia aren’t getting a dime.
Robert Blevins, a reporter for MSNBC/Newsvine explained it thoroughly:
“The ransoms collected by these guys does not go to ‘feed the people of Somalia’. It goes to things like this: To pay off local warlords, to pay off government officials in Puntland and Somalia, to pay off port officials who allow the pirates to park their stolen ships and keep crews hostage, to purchase faster boats, GPS and computer gear, as well as RPG’s and heavy machine guns. And…to line the pockets of the pirates, of course.
The pirates also pay off the leaders of a known terror group in Somalia – the Al-Shibaab. The US State Department believes that now some members of the pirate gangs are also members of Al-Shibaab, if for nothing else to safeguard the monetary interests of Al-Shibaab.”
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So stop being so naive. These pirates are low-life criminal thugs, not saviors of Somalia!
If the U.S. is such a bad place why don’t you leave? Oh thats right because the U.S. is the only place on the planet that will put up with your extremely slanted opinions, and protect you while expressing them.PLEASE POST YOUR EVIDENCE FOR ONCE INSTEAD OF JUMPING ON MICHAEL MOORE’S BAND WAGON. Has The U.S. ever done anything good in your eyes?
R said: Well thank god the US has a black president.
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Black, yellow, red or white does not a good president make! Plus, he’s not as black as everyone thinks, but that’s another story! He is however a gutless wuss, teleprompter dependent, narcissistic ego-maniac who’s sole purpose is to gut our economy, dismantle our constitution and strip all Americans of the last vestages of freedom they hold. Before he’s through in four years, you won’t recognize America! Your first and second amendment rights will be gone and our sovereignty as a nation will be eliminated. He’s been on a fast track the first 100 days, and I doubt we even have a nation by 2012!
The ONLY good thing he’s done since American’s were stupid enough to elect him, was to allow our Navy Seals to do their job!
I do not believe there is any dumping. Why would they dump toxic waste off the cast of Africa when they have an entire ocean of international waters to dump in? Someone said that the oceans “are patrolled” — what a ludicrous idea. The oceans are vast and cannot be effectively patrolled by anybody! “Dumping” is a lie told to justify these crimes and get sympathy from bleeding-heart liberals like you. The pirates are terrorists. If there were illegal fishing, why don’t they stop the fishing boats with all the russian weapons they have? No, Somalia is run by gangs and warlords, and they are only after money. They need to be stopped.
Paul said: U.S. is the only place on the planet that will put up with your extremely slanted opinions, and protect you while expressing them.
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That will soon be gone – All voices of descent will be silenced before B. Hussein Obama is through! But while I can, I will speak my piece! Hopefully, we will have a revolution in this country and take it back and overthrow this sorry government so we can once again be a nation for the people, of the people and by the people!
and now another hotshot pirate is saying he’s gonna start killing american and french sailors??? wipe these people and their country off the face of the earth. ALL OF THEM. the world will be a better place.
Wait. So the alleged dumping has caused the illness of humans, but there is fishing going on in the same waters? Does that seem even remotely likely to anyone?
Don’t paint the pirates with a pity paintbrush. They are criminals.
I don’t believe either the governments nor the Somali pirates.
A lot of people commenting are now defending the rights of the pirates, a lot people of African ancestry here,assume that because of skin color, the Africans are the same as them. But that NOT the case.
Those pirate are ISLAMIC, and do identify with Africa, but with their religion, and Arabs.
Their ideas of law and order are not the same as Westerners, their culture is COMPLETELY different, because WE, in the West, separate religion and government, the Moslems do NOT.
Moslems have stringent laws, strict hierarchy, they apply everything according to the koran. As well, they still have slavery, outright, in your face. They have different ideas about women as well. They have female genital mutilation, as well.
When as a male, you interview the Somalian males, you have to interprete, what is their idea of right and wrong and lawful, according to their religion.
These pirates are Moslem first, and do NOT identify with Africa, but rather with their religion, and in spite of their skin color, consider themselves ARABS. They consider Arabia their home, NOT Africa.
Leeroy:
“So the alleged dumping has caused the illness of humans, but there is fishing going on in the same waters? Does that seem even remotely likely to anyone?”
Yes, it’s likely. 1- They still have to make a living.2-As you can see, and it’s fair to say, the pirates know it’s unclean, and trying to stop it. 3-In many parts of the world, people bathe and wash, and draw water, in the same place there are feces. Even in the U.S. Knowing or unkonowing, of the dangers.
There are a few truths to this article, and a few untruths as well. I would like to focus on the big paradoxical issue that sticks out like a sore thumb. If other countries are duping nuclear waste into the sea that is making the Somali population sick, then how stupid are they to then turn around and fish in the same contaminated waters? Duh? Also, the difference between this situation and the American Revolution is that the Continental Congress did what they did for the good of mankind, and with a sense of honor and good values. The Somalis are now motivated by greed, and place no value on human life, i.e. holding a ship full of life saving food for ransom. They are thugs and criminals. Their only intention is to earn enough money to line their pockets and support more criminal activities. There is a big difference between a national revolution, and gangster style extortion. We are not being lied to. As the old saying goes, two wrongs don’t make a right. Remember what they did the last time the world came to their rescue? That’s right, the thugs stole the food from their own starving people and used it to extort them, or to buy more arms for the purpose of terrorizing and murdering the innocent. Are there god people in Somalia? Yes, but the ones making the headlines are walking talking oxygen thieves. Imagine what they could accomplish if they focused all of that energy into stabilizing, and rebuilding their country. Fools for fodder.
there is a very good article this month in vanity fair-you can read it also online
it seems this french cruise ship they wrote about had a bonding between the pirates and the crew
i would like their take on this
but i do believe there is dumping going on
just whom and when must be determined-case by case
africa is always a likely target for dumping garbage in waters-canada was also guilty of this years ago when brian mulroney was our prime minister
it was a barge from Baie de Comeau
i am pleased this is forefront and a sifting of information will come out
or should…will is maybe pushing it
i so wish we could beleive media
but then it is not possible
Langalibalele, dude you need to take a close look at yourself in the mirror. Forget the racist crap. You are a human being like the rest of us. If the U.S. were a genocidal nation as you assert what were we doing in Mogadishu during the Clinton Administration trying to feed the starving when Black Hawk happened. Get a life.
Having read a good portion of the comments on this site, it’s pretty conclusive that the callousness being charged at international governments is quite possible, using the general antipathy of their respective constituents as an indicator.
Regardless of the accusations being levelled, we can all agree that the world is pretty much SNAFU. That being said, why don’t we all focus our time on more profitable and productive adventures. There would be no need for nuclear dumping if we all were to petition for low-cost renewable energy. There would be no need for illegal trawling and the invasion of the littoral borders if more sustainable fishing methods were used.
Only once we, to put it in the vernacular, “get our sh*t straightened out”, then we can kvetch over global issues. Let us not focus on the things we cannot change and instead try to work for peace and tranquility among our own.
The name calling and insults gets in the way. Americans only hear and know what the media chooses to report. I am not sure what going on in Somalia but Americans shouldn’t be so quick to judge and ready to destroy any part of the world and especially Africa which has been exploited for centuries.
Fascinating article on a sad state of affairs. I wonder if this fits into the global elites’ agenda to “free trade” Africa into bondage: Cause a crisis -> offer a solution with hooks and strings attached -> divest the environment of all its remaining rescources -> leave the inhabitants hopelessly indebted to and dependent on the New World Order.
Of course, Obama is the spearhead of this agenda. How ironic…
I just checked out an article chicagotribune.com October 10, 2008. It best to do your own research to get the facts. You can’t rely on the evening news.
Sam, you’re an idiot.
“they say they are protecting their waters but in the UK or USA ships will be told to turn round and leave waters they arent hijacked with soviet weapons.”
Ever heard of the United States Coast Guard? And if that doesn’t work, they call out the Navy. I promise you they have guns.
The thing about Soviet weapons is completely irrelevant. What is this? What is the American obsession with socialism and communism? I’m surprised we aren’t blaming global warming on communism. Well, except conservatives blame “the global warming myth” on socialists. Oops. These folks use whatever weapons they can get. Soviet weapons *work,* in all sorts of adverse conditions, unlike the average U.S. military small arms, especially the M16. You’d use them too if you had nothing else available.
I live in a city with a large Somali population and you know, we can’t even seem to give ‘em a break when they come here to live. There’s a local guy here whose mission in life is to paint the entire Somali immigrant population as al Qaeda terrorists. What were they supposed to do, stay in Africa and starve? I don’t know how he lives with himself, I really don’t.
Thank you for this article. I had no idea what was going on but of course with no government, things aren’t going to be all law-and-order in Somalia even if the pirates had NO legitimate reason to be hijacking ships. The only way it’s going to get better is if we start treating the people of Africa as human beings and moral agents in their own right instead of like we’re Big Daddy and they’re little kids.
Jim Campbell, if you don’t think the United States is a genocidal nation, you’re not up on your history. I’m part Cherokee… ask them if they think the U.S. is genocidal. The pisser is, you don’t have to kill people to commit genocide. Genes are only half the story. Part of what makes a human being human, and a particular ethnicity of human, is their culture. Regardless of how many American Indians exist today versus in 1491, how many of them are still living their tradtional lives, on the lands they originally inhabited? Precious few. We’ve killed them without killing them. You are complicit in that, because you deny it happened.
We did the same thing to Africans. We shipped a whole bunch of them here, destroyed their traditional lifeways and now they are but shadows of their former selves. Immigrants come here from Africa and they don’t know what to make of African-Americans, nor vice-versa. Many descendants of slaves don’t even know where they came from, what ethnicity they were originally. Urban culture is all they have left and they’re condemned for that too, by white people who think they should have “gotten over” racism already. How do you get over being destroyed?
So yeah. Persist in your delusions if you will. But you’re either part of the solution or you’re part of the problem. Your choice.
What a crock this article is. That is like saying the Mafia only sells tainted Girl Scout Cookies.
Get a grip. Crap country and crap people taking advantage of an opportunity that is a no-brainer to make millions. Put a gun in a sissie’s face and they pay. Like any cheap crook and they are not heroes vindicating hazardous waste dumping, Mr. Green. Jeffrey Dahmer only wanted to be a Sunday School teacher but was deprived, sure.
They would cut your heart out for ten bucks and half would not know Nuke waste if they drank it. Probably part of their problem of slipping into the mainstream of the world.
par
What a weak story…the Somali pirates are criminals, plain and simple. Most of the bloggers reponses indicate they have no knowledge of the real world or life, and perhaps should get a life. Amazing it is that most anthropologists feel mankind started in Africa and this is what it has evolved into? This piracy problem did not have to be, had the nations of the world ended it in the beginning instead of caving into barbaric illiterate less than animals. They need to be conditioned with some negative reinforcement.
@HG Greenbrush
They’re human beings, just like you. They do what is within their immediate drive towards self-preservation because they happen to have a VERY short life expectancy. To call them less than animals only assumes that you find some part of you more loathsome than those you target.
BTW, negative reinforcement does not work even from a Skinnerian standpoint. It only seeks to amotivate and demoralize the subject, actually prompting further acts of violence. Read your psychology textbook ;)
I totally agree with Fort Cannon as this article is an absolute piece of shit but what else should be expected from liberal freekin idiots in San Francisco.. Why don’t you all just move to these great blood sucking scum bag countries you so want to protect and shit on the US to do so. This country certainly would not miss pieces of shit as yourselves. Get a life San Francisco…P.S. take that idiot Mayor with you…
I’m not one to trust the government, and I’m guessing that there is much that we don’t know. But one thing I am wondering: why would anyone want to eat fish that has supposedly been contaminated by so much nuclear waste? Are the European versions of the FDA so completely incompetent that they don’t inspect fish coming from Africa? What does that say about the ability of government to protect people it the est?
You are on bad weed man switch bongs. If you decide to go to Somalia I will send you money. You need to be there to help, anything less you are depriving your soul.
Write when you can we are all counting on you.. Pack your bags don’t wait you can show the world what it is all about and it is your destiny. Years from now we will be saying what a noble person you were to sacrifice for what you believed in. You have the true spirit and you will make a difference in the world. If you want you can leave your valuables at my house and I will hold them for your return.
Life expectancy does diminish in the pirate trade. I know 3 guys that had dreams of millions and it went right to their heads, it was mind blowing.
par
You are on bad weed man switch bongs. If you decide to go to Somalia I will send you money. You need to be there to help, anything less you are depriving your soul.
Write when you can we are all counting on you.. Pack your bags don’t wait you can show the world what it is all about and it is your destiny. Years from now we will be saying what a noble person you were to sacrifice for what you believed in. You have the true spirit and you will make a difference in the world. If you want you can leave your valuables at my house and I will hold them for your return.
Life expectancy does diminish in the pirate trade. I know 3 guys that had dreams of millions and it went right to their heads, it was mind blowing.
fuck somalia,
stop trying to pirate up my shit, you motherfuckers better learn now and very quickly that i am not down with this shit.
pirates are cool yes, but boats filled with headscarfed characters? not cool guys. not cool.
so wait… we are pulling fish from waters we dumped toxic waste in? god bless america
The “Naysayers” always crack me up… Like “where are the photos of the dumping”. As if otherwise it can’t really be happening. Naysayers will use ANY inconsistency as “proof” that the WHOLE THING is nonsense.
And to the Naysaying fool who said “They don’t put nuclear waste in containers”. They DO PUT *medical* “radiological” (i.e. NUCLEAR) waste in containers, you “Naysayer.”
Yesterday I wanted nuke Somalia. Today I want to sink a few European nuclear waste cargo ships.
From now on I will believe NOTHING until I hear both sides of the story. And if I only hear ONE side (because my government makes sure of it), I will simply assume there IS another side, and I will refuse to make judgment until I hear it.
I would suggest you all do the same.
(Except of course you “Naysayers” won’t, because you can’t).
(Quote Naysayer) “so wait… we are pulling fish from waters we dumped toxic waste in? god bless america”
Another fool naysayer who obviously didn’t read the entire article, and therefore didn’t get to the end (“Postscript”) where it explains the 2000 mile distance between the dumping and fishing sites.
Naysayers don’t have the attention span to read an entire article. They are too antsy and just itching to “Naysay”!
if the united states and the national community wants the somali people to stop piracy they need stop coming into our shores and dumping nuclears waste on our land and stealing our natural resources.
I love all the tough guy, dick waving in this discussion. I love how people get off on calling people a liberal.
Thank goodness the Somalian pirates can be trusted!
I had been hoping they can be trusted for so long because I wanted honestly but didn´t have the courage to tell it until now some of them to come to Iceland and be interviewed at our local radio television shows.
I tried to believe it when it was told in the local news media in Iceland that they were brutal yesterday and told dad I had thought before they were the guys who were operating in the manner that is being described above.
In Iceland phenomena took place also causing ships to come with nuclear waste material from Russia and dump it in the south – east coast. I should inform you that the technology to remove the pollution is there but it is being hidden by intelligence agencies such as the CIA.
Now that I know that the Somalean Pirates are OK people and that they can be trusted it´s just as I hoped. I can´t wait to look at the horror of the faces of surprized family members as I tell them that I have been reading that the whole thing about the Somalean pirates being some kind of evil brutal serial killers is a fantasy. It´s really good to know that people in Somalea are increasing awareness of the environment. I think that as the shores get cleaned up and more life gets brought in more people behind illegal removal of fishing stock in Somalea´s seas will be put on trial , especially due to their connection with polluters.
The Somalean people will have justice , and it´s no longer a question of when now that the whole world knows how blatant the lie has been that these ´pirates´are bad people.
And thank you for letting me and the other people know!!
How many of you have actually been to Somalia? As a US Marine I spent more time there than I’d ever want to and now in the business world I go to Kenya, Nigeria and Sierra Leone frequently. I have never now or then seen anything even remotely like what you describe in your article. Instead of arguing please provide proof until you have proof of these claims they are just accusations.
I go to Africa to try and help. Help stop some of the public corruption that has literally turned the continent into a stagnant cesspool where good cops can’t do their job or are killed if they do not participate in the corruption.
Instead of making these baseless accusations how about you go where I go, take the risks and try to help. Nigeria has heroes like Ibrahim Lamorde that are trying to stamp out what is crippling Africa. Nothing is gained with these accusations. I know this audience doesn’t want to hear this but after over 15 yrs of traveling to Africa the problem with Africa is the Africans. The Africans of these countries like Nigeria.
Want to help? Go there and write articles about the businessman in Mombasa that has his business taken from him by bandits. He tries to send money to his family the bandits or the couriers steal it. In other words without connections it is very hard for them to establish a business especially in a country where 85% of the citizens are unbanked.
Africa is an amazing place. It needs a lot of work and they’d be better served by stories about issues that have proof and are believable.
I am positive you won’t take my word for it but if you do a bit of research you’ll see that piracy on the oceans of the world is very prevalent and one of many issues folks are trying to tackle.
The story you should have written was about how food and other supplies that are needed desperately in Kenya were the prize in this attempted take over.
I guess your readers might not be as inflamed with a story about Africans working hard to deprive other Africans. Sorry Sir your story misses the boat. The story is how the corrupt governments and bandits of Africa are literally killing off some amazing people. Warm, generous, intelligent and beautiful people are suffering because of the actions of other Africans.
Hell the reality is Africans are even helping UK oil companies in Nigeria and other companies rape the land. Want to help Africa? stop this nonsense and start the real stories.
Honestly how many of you reading this and responding have actually been to Africa to work and make it better? Judging by how many other Americans I see there. Very few unfortunately.
Respectfully,
John K.
JazzyKat “I disagree…Fox News is the only media outlet on TV that is giving a somewhat balanced view of the news.”
And with that statement you completely and utterly invalidate your opinion. Do the world a favour stop thumping your bible for just one second; pick up that gun you love sooo much. Now place it in your mouth… and pull the trigger.
….good little piggy
Also, to the writer of this article. I live in Belmont California. I’d love to meet you at a place of your choosing to sit down and discuss your experiences in Africa. And as a criminal investigator for a well known private sector organization, I’d LOVE to sit down and see the proof for your accusations.
If there is credibility to these claims. I promise you that I will ensure it gets attention. And I’ll support you all the way. What have you got to lose… You have my email address…
I’ll let you folks know how this meeting goes.
John K
And Dana… Can you come up with something a bit more relevant. can you name some countries that at some point in history haven’t fucked up another group? we are humans which are animals. throughout history we have been pretty bad to each other.
People like you that ignore this reality and act like only the US or Only country XY and Z are bad are just off track.
I am guessing you understand your own people that you claim partial heritage to (doesn’t everyone at some point claim to be Indian) did some pretty bad things too and not just stuff that was revenge for white man… I suggest you learn a bit of the world history and the history of all men before you lay a world of horrible actions on the door step of the USA.
you are all idiots.
““Stop the genocidal war against African people!””
The only genocidal war going on in Africa are Africans killing Africans with spears and unprotected AIDS infected sex/
First, thank you to t k and others for trying to moderate the tone. That being said, I would first one of the many outrageous, inflammatory responses of Jazzykat:
Hey I think they should have killed them all on day one! And…then bombed the cock-roaches hiding in Somalia. Eliminate the problem at the source! Um, just killing the cockroaches does not eliminate “the source”. Other then “the source” being the theoretical “creator” of cockroaches (and other species), I think a better idea would be to clean up the mess that contributes to the “cockroaches” thriving. To reapply the metaphor, getting rid of poverty might be one way to reduce any “excuses”, as Jazzykat (and others) the Somalian pirates have for doing what they do. However, just getting rid of poverty didn’t eliminate the “pirating” on Wall Street which has been an even more high-profile theft of late. Which brings me to another comment made by Dave, I believe: Have some dignity, man. You’re not a sheep. You’re a human being. You’re not a helpless victim, unable to make decisions for yourself. You’re a human being. Ah, yes, tell that to the millions who have lost their jobs recently. Maybe we (all of us unemployed people–lazy assholes, I think was the term used) will be inspired by these words to all start our own business and thrive by taking in each others’ laundry–or some such. My next point–Jazzykat again (so prolific!): How can a thief of property or life be considered “good” in motivation or deed, or by any other stretch of the imagination. What are you? The Sheriff of Nottingham?
And this from Kamakana: and now another hotshot pirate is saying he’s gonna start killing american and french sailors??? wipe these people and their country off the face of the earth. ALL OF THEM. the world will be a better place. And where will it end? Similar sentiments to General George B. Custer’s. Kill, kill, and kill some more. What would Christ have to say about that? Are you anti-Christian, too? You decry the writer for not offering any “proof”, but apparently the only proof you need for your points is that if someone’s actions are contrary to your “beliefs”, then they are wrong. Period.
Hey Dana claiming to part Indian will not diminish your guilt in the genocide of the native Americans.
“You are being lied to about pirates”
indeed. by this article.
Even if one accepts the pirates logic — they need to protect their territorial waters from Euro mafia dumping waste and Euro fishermen taking their fish — how does seizing legitimate trade ships or French families accomplish this?
Ultimately, a legitimate cause has been hijacked and the author of this article is a dupe for not thinking critically about whether these means truly have anything to do with the proclaimed end
Protecting your costline is one thing. Kidnapping ppl and and caputring ships for randsom money. If that’s not piracy, then what is? This article is trying to mix 2 stories together to try and justify piracy. These ppl are even going out of their waters and capturing ships in neigbouring countries’s waters. Capturing sail boats and catamarans.
That’s like saying i only rod banks cause the gov is wasting tax money.
Love ‘em or hate ‘em, Somali pirates have captured a lot of minds. Yesterday, in one day, this one story, “You are being lied to about pirates,” get over 83,000 hits here at sfbayview, and comments now total 220. Thank you all for bringing a lot of folks back to the Bay View. Before our old site was hacked, we were getting over 2 million hits a month and your interest in this story is putting us back on the map.
Many of you want more evidence to back up the contentions in this story – so today I went hunting. Read the latest story – three stories actually – at http://www.sfbayview.com/2009/somalis-speak-out-why-we-don%E2%80%99t-condemn-our-pirates/, watch the video at the end, and don’t miss Davey D’s dynamite video interview with Somali rapper K’naan, at http://www.sfbayview.com/2009/knaan-talks-with-davey-d-about-somali-pirates/
While you’re at it, check out what Mumia says about Somali pirates, at http://www.sfbayview.com/2008/somali-woes-the-perils-of-intervention/. In the first photo caption is a response to your question, Yossarian: “Newsweek quotes a leader of the pirates, interviewed by phone from the bridge of the Faina, who explains, ‘If we are forced to avoid fishing our waters, then those [commercial] ships are all our fish.’” The MV Faina is the Ukrainian ship loaded with Russian tanks and artillery that the pirates held for five months, from September to February.
Welcome to the Bay View to those who are new and welcome home to old friends! We have a lot of hot stories; check ‘em out.
Mary Ratcliff, editor
SF Bay View
Your statement below is more conspiracy laden than any UFO maniac I have ever heard. Being a conservative doesn’t make you immune to being propogandized that “they” (the big bad liberals) are out to destroy the “american way”.
Talk about paranoia.
So we should just shoot them all? I suppose you think God will sort them out also. Very Ethnocentric. . . you are measuring Somalia’s values and how they express their outrage in terms of Western European “moral” values that the Western world does not even use themselves.
Grow a pair and quit preaching a worn out and see through party line.
Not a bleeding heart- but at least I still have one.
Jazzykat, on April 12th, 2009 at 7:23 am Said:
[among other things. . .]
“The weakness and indecisiveness of our gutless president, who is clueless about leading a nation has nothing to do with race. He’s a Jimmy Carter all over again! It has everything to do with bleeding heart liberals who think they can talk and reason with insane criminals. You don’t negotiate with terrorists – you eliminate them!
Believe you me, the terrorists are watching our weakness and it may be in your own backyard they strike next! 911 will look like a picnic. Hope you are fully armed to defend yourself and your family!”
The article is good, but the illegal waste dumping thing is a pretty serious allegation. The author needs more than one quote from one guy to make that appear creditable.
The criticism of this article, that “just because your fish was all stolen by European trawlers doesn’t justify you attacking large freighters which didn’t themselves have anything to do with stealing your fish” seems to make sense to me.
However, people who have chosen to utter it ad nauseum in the “comments” section below the article have apparently forgotten that the world isn’t a totally polite one where people in a war torn country with a collapsed economy just patiently bide their time, slowly starving, while their ignored pleas for economic justice get politely submitted to the UN. That isn’t how it works.
If you take away a people’s ability to honestly and legally provide for themselves, they will most likely pursue *some other* way to provide for themselves. That’s what happened in inner cities in America when manufacturing jobs were outsourced and “white flight” destroyed the tax bases school budgets come from. You saw a rise in crime and drug pushing. People looked into a bad situation and chose whatever option appeared the most realistic.
The same thing happened in Mexico and the rest of Latin America. The US totally screwed Mexico’s economy with NAFTA, which resulted in a lot of people (mostly farmers) loosing their jobs. In El Salvador, Guatemala, Columbia, and elsewhere, we’ve backed brutal governments who repressed popular uprisings and created major refugee situations. Now when some of those people come to the US looking for a job, they are “criminals”.
But the weapons contractors who got rich selling guns to dictators, and the American agricultural giants whose imports threw Mexican farmers out of work- and then into the streets to riot for food when it became more profitable to turn corn into ethanol- have never served a day in jail, or even been a featured target of Lou Dobbs or any of the other demagogues.
The crisis in Somalia, in the ‘Democratic’ Republic of the Congo, in Afghanistan, and in many other places, are mostly due to the interference of Cold War rivalries. We give weapons and training to very dubious parties (ex Mobutu in Zaire, or Islamic Fundamentalists in Afghanistan in the 80s) when they are killing our enemies, but when they start killing civilians in order to solidify their rule, we ignore it.
The amount of civilians killed by future members of the “Northern Alliance” when they shelled Kabul in the mid 90s is higher than the number of people killed in Sarajevo when the Serbs were shelling it. But apparently this wasn’t newsworthy, and it would have been more than a bit embarrassing for the US to have to step in to disarm people it had previously backed.
The same thing happened in Somalia. Ruler Siad Barre was at first friendly to the Soviet Union. Then the USSR changed its mind and decided to back Ethiopia in 1977 when they and Somalia were fighting. So the dictator of Somalia became the US’s ally instead and we gave this guy millions of dollars to keep him in power. Eventually people became fed up with him running their country and a terrible civil war developed as different parties attempted to replace him.
American weapons and foreign policy is one of the main REASONS so much of the rest of the world is a war torn, fucked up place. Was it not a former ally- Osama Bin Laden- who came back to haunt us in 2001? When you’re the one holding the hammer a lot of things start to look like nails… but brute force alone isn’t solving the world’s problems- especially when the people in charge of that force tend to be an elitist, parasitic, and arrogant lot whose records have shown precious little concern for the lives of anybody daring to be born brown or poor.
Sending in the Navy, SEALS teams, the Air Force, or whoever else as some kind of a “solution” for the problem of East African instability makes about as much sense as building inner city prisons instead of schools, or giving the Mexican oligarchy guns to fight a brutal drug war instead of the tools to build a sustainable, pro- human economy. This article has some problems but it’s got more good points than bad ones. I’d like to thank the SF Bay View for having the guts to actually raise the harder social questions. Our country and our empire is collapsing. The screeches of discredited imperialism now emanating from the media and the White House have nothing positive to offer the people of Somalia or the United States. It’s time to end the war- not to start another one.
hey Dave-
Hear no evil, see no evil?
Wanna stifle the threat to your view of reality?
If not then what’s with trying to shut up a FREE PERSON FROM EXPRESSING THEIR FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
If you don’t like a TV show, do you watch it?
If you are sick of reading it, log off the forum and f**k off.
Dave, on April 12th, 2009 at 8:14 am Said:
“Stop the genocidal war against African people!”
Good God, just shut up.
There’s no “genocidal war against African people.”
Seriously, just shut up.
I know it makes life more interesting and exciting to think in such dramatic, colorful terms. It’s fun to pretend that there are conspiracies, and powerful people who are out to get powerless people. But honest to God — it’s just not what the world is all about.
Nobody CARES that much, for one thing. Nobody cares about Africa — or Asia, or Antarctica, or anywhere else — to engage in some prolonged, quiet “genocidal war.” Human beings get their 80-ish years on earth to live and eat and have sex and do their thing. They’re not sitting around devoting their time to thinking about how to screw some foreign continent.
Christ almighty. Just shut up.
“
zzykat, on April 12th, 2009 at 9:22 am Said:
Oh please don’t quote history, unless you understand it. The Cold War ended under Ronald Reagan…study it!
THIS COMMENT IS NONSENSE. . . HE DIDN’T SAY ANYTHING INCORRECT NOR DID HE FINGER ANY INDIVIDUAL. . . YOU DID. . . AND YOU BLAMED A REPLUBICAN CONSERVATIVE! LOLZ~~~
Nuking Japan ending World War II and Japan is now a friendly nation on the world stage!
WHO IS KICKING AMERICA’S ECONOMIC ASS BY THE WAY
You liberals think peace comes from friendly dialogue with our enemies. While Mutually Assured Destruction keeps the Soviets in check! Unfortunately, it doesn’t work with Islamic Terrorists who think if they die, they’ll get 70 virgins in heaven!
AND YOU SIR ARE A BIGOTED IGNORANT ASS. I DARE YOU TO GET AN ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF THE QARAN AND FIND THAT PASSAGE. SINCE 911 HAPPENED, ISLAMIC SCHOLARS AND RELIGIOUS LEADERS HAVE REPEATED OVER AND OVER AND IT IS VERIFIED BY “WHITE” FOLKS TOO IF THAT MATTERS TO YOU: IT DOES NOT SAY YOU GET 70 VIRGINS FOR DYING FOR ALLAH!~!!!!!!!!!
YOU GO LOOK IT UP AND LEARN, YA IGNORANT INBRED MUTANT
Darthvadertheimperialist, on April 12th, 2009 at 9:26 am Said [out of his nether regions]: “Given that Islam grows fastest in environments of total ignorance, the fact that it is growing in leaps and bounds in Somalia should be another indicator to the idiocy of Somali people.”
You need to read history also. I bet you stopped as soon as you met the high school bare minimum standards. Mathematics and our number system originated with the islamic Arabs. . . so did the largest portion of ancient ocean navigation. . .and under Islamic rule of the Abassids, the works of thousands of ancient Greek and Roman writers and historians were copied and preserved: most fortunate after great fires destroyed many invaluable collections of the same volumes.
Go see what they gave before you decide that their history is all take and conflict. You obviously don’t know world history or especially Islamic African/Arabian history.
RUKidding said: make no mistake, I do not and would not just have water hoses. Think you are the only one that has arms?
Omigod. It’s a done deal. The discussion has become a male pissing contest about who can shoot who.
this. . . THIS. . . exact attitude is why countries shoot other countries. because people cannot accept differences without trying to force or convert the other person.
You two (Jazzywhatshisface) pick a place , choose a second, and go duel at dawn in real life and leave the forum in peace!
Jazzykat, on April 12th, 2009 at 11:29 am Said:
Langalibalele – black slavery was over 100 years ago and many white Americans died in the Civil War…so get over it all ready.
And it still doesn’t come close to the numbers of the dead slaves, killed by EUROPEAN provided conditions in transport and on American soil. Get a freaking education, Jazzy, the fact that your dad is also your grandpa is showing.
“America is not the most respected of nations today, because we’ve become weakened by the liberal commie mindset in high levels of government.” [jazzykat, who else talks that much and that ignorantly?]
America is not respected because Bush thumbed his nose at the world when he could not get his spoiled rich boy way. The good old conservative boys’ club didn’t second his motion, so he declared himself dictator basically and decided to move in despite congress and the UN’s conclusions that it was premature. Well, that’s just like you Jazzy, fire those guns first and ask later. See what the result is? Just like you, noone respects you and the educated laught at you. Move to Idaho and stay in the bunker, you would be much more pleasant off the internet, out of sight and out of public view.
RU Kidding, on April 12th, 2009 at 11:32 am Said:
Langalibalele, on April 12th, 2009 at 11:15 am Said: “@RUKidding. Your entire bloodsucking SOCIETY was built upon stealing this land and slavery.”
And if it weren’t for “whitey” your race wouldn’t have anywhere to get it’s welfare checks from.
AND IF: it weren’t for “whitey” his race wouldn’t NEED to get welfare checks. They were brought here, they didn’t ask to be kidnapped, pinche cavron
Dave are you on Quaaludes? Life is just all groovy man! duh.
I’d bet you took too much acid in the 1970’s. Quit making those of us who are sympathetic to Somalia like dumbass hippies. I’m a hippy but I’m not a dumbass hippy that thinks it’s all good so just mellow out…time for a reality check, Dude.
Now I know where RUKidding got the name:
Cut the crap!
Being a terrorist or pirate or any other anti social behavior is evident and obvious to all including the perpetrators. The rest is just weak justification and rationalization and are just poor excuses for bad behavior.
OKAY so the founding fathers were terrorists. The pioneers who settled your land and shot the indians were terrorists. The INVADERS who came into Iraq WITHOUT consensus that it was necessary ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS.
THE TERRORISTS ARE AMERICANS!
Jeez you can figure that out even reading the American newspapers and adding two plus two.
JazzyKat: Life is what you make it, red, yellow, black or white! Black people have been given more advantages in this country than any other race of people and they still bellyache! I for one am sick of everything being turned into a racist debate and I’m sick of the whining blacks who blame all whites for their status in life.
YOU sound like Hitler explaining why the Jewish people were the cause of strife and unemployment and media control in Germany. . . attend any chemistry classes by any chance?
This article seems very fantasised and the research done is pathetic. I abhor this type of journalism.
al, on April 13th, 2009 at 10:02 am Said:
Those pirate are ISLAMIC, and do identify with Africa, but with their religion, and Arabs.
Okay you need to do some reading too before you form opinions. Islamic empires ruled that entire region for hundreds of years, long before your ancestors could make a boat. In fact, Islam rulers are the reason that world trade was able to develop to the extent it did. The silk road was useless once the Mongols invaded western Asia until the Islamic empire gained territories through to the trade roads and became a bridge from Southwest Asia to the markets in the rest of the European world.
Someone asked in this thread whether they could think of something good the US did. . .
Well, Jazzy, RU, etc. : name a few things good that Islam has done? or Somalia? or the pirates?
the point is, no one person or place is all bad. . .and if you want others to see both sides, you’d better start trying that yourselves.
freeta goodholm, on April 13th, 2009 at 7:22 pm Said:
Hey Dana claiming to part Indian will not diminish your guilt in the genocide of the native Americans.
IF she made her point without mentioning it, her views would have no support or experience to explain them.
but if she does mention it, she’s an automatic fake?
So you would snipe at her either way. . .
And even if she is half indian half white, how on earth could she be implicated in the genocide? Obviously someone in her history literally loved native americans (hopefully it was positive like that, although I concede the unwilling mating was far from positive one must agree the child/children have no fault in that.
She didn’t say her grandma was a cherokee princess, so give her the benefit of the doubt!
I am from the US and I am not a liberal. After stating that I will also state that I know what Somalia is like and if I lived there I would be a pirate. If you do not understand why these people are doing this then you are blind sheep.
These pirates have also Not killed a single person to date. They are doing it for the monay to feed their people.
All this white black shit pisses me off. I happen to be white with a shaved head and white peopel ask me if I am a racist and black people assume I am racist and I take every opportunity to open both of their eyes.
To say that racism does not still exist in the US is ignorant and to cry about racism and not take responsibilty for yourself and your roots is also ignorant and non-productive.
A little persepctive from the Ghetto.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT2C9T5vOF0
If you do not watch this and believe it then you need to educate yourself further.
So I’m supposed to feel sorry for a bunch of lowly thieves? They aren’t giving this money back to the poor people of Somalia you jackasses. They’re greedy fuckers. They are THIEVES.
This is so unbelievable. If we ever get invaded by aliens I can’t wait for this sites story about how were being lied to about the evil little green men and their actions are really justified in a way.
G253mom said:
“She didn’t’t say her grandma was a Cherokee princess, so give her the benefit of the doubt!”
They all claim to be part Cherokee.
The “tag your it” argument doesn’t work her ancestors were complicit.
It is dishonest to judge 19th century man with 21st century values, in 200 years people will think I am a monster for owning a cat.
So all the american people that have lost there homes, can’t feed there families, no jobs, etc………….Everyone is perfectly fine if they resort to a life a crime robbing banks, stores, kidnapping people for randsome? As long as no one gets hurt this is perfectly fine?
everyone STFU….
/comments
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/somalia/articles/20090409.aspx
You are all fuckin crazy
U.S. Navy a liar — Three pirates executed in cold blood
Look at the facts:
(1) Tribal leaders in Somalia proposed that both captain and pirates be released without a ransom, the pirates were in agreement but the Navy refused to let the pirates go.
(2) Navy knew that the enclosed metal boat was a torture chamber in the hot sun and rough sea, and that after five days of this the pirates were very passive and most eager to any agreement that would gain them freedom.
(3) The Navy lied when it said that they decided to shoot when the pirates started to point a gun at the captain, as the pirates for five days most of the time had at least one gun pointed at the captain.
(4) With the boat bobbing up and down, only if NONE of the pirates were pointing a gun at the captain would the Navy had dared to shoot. And only if they could somehow fool the pirates into setting down their guns, only then would it be perfectly safe to execute them in cold blood.
Now, even if western media refuses to state the facts, news media throughout the Southern Hemisphere is stating all the facts, and asking many damaging questions. Another example of Obama mania, which in many is just as insane as that of the maniac dictator from Texas.
Hey, I just have to say, I truly love this article. I was wondering why no news station seemed interested in covering possible motives for these “pirates”. This answers all my questions. I was so outraged when I found out I called my local news station, WWL 4, which was giving quite bias coverage, and they told me to email this link as a press release. Whether or not they will use it, I don’t know, but I just had to do SOMETHING.
I’m 16 and my English and AP Government class is focusing on standing up for human rights and political activism and I will definitely be writing a paper on this.
Cuba trade embargo — All to do with rich corporations
China in many ways is more brutal, dictatorial and deadly toward its people then Cuba.
But in China our rich corporations have unlimited freedom to pay slave-labor wages.
Now what do you think would happen if Cuba were to open its doors to our rich corporations, and do it with such things as eliminating worker protection laws that kept rich corporations from oppressing workers?
Keeping in mind that the trade embargo had nothing to do with communism, as it was enforced right after Cuba took all the land away from rich white corporations and gave it to poor black farmers.
So I managed to make it through a few dozen comments and then started feeling sick to my stomach. Everyone in the world is in pain, regardless of their physical, environmental, social, or monetary situation. I hear this emotional and spiritual pain crying out loudly here, in the form of anger at others. Who here is really happy???? Stop looking outside, that is the great illusion, go within to find Truth.
Gotta love California.
House prices always go up too, don’t you think? Debt = wealth, crime = guns, taxes = income
Orwell was right. The animals have taken over the farm and they’re all equal, except for the ones with the inside scoop, they’re more equal.
Here’s what I think…
The entire stuff was staged and an eyewash. I wouldn’t be surprised if in the near future, all the shipping companies decide to pay certain amount of money to get protection from US Navy. Safety will be guaranteed maybe.
At the end of the day, shipping companies would still have to shell out money… this time to the law-enforcing agencies. Just keep an eye open.
On 14th May’09, I read an article that Somalian pirates have hijacked Egyptian fishing trawlers and as mentioned in this article they do not have any authority to do fishing in Somalian waters…this shows pure exploitation of having no government in Somalia !!
While i believe that some ships are dumping, it doesn’t make sense to use this as an excuse for these “warlords” and “pirates” to attack oil tankers, private family boats..etc etc and demand a “ransom”.
This is pure criminal and they know it.
I totally agree the content and the knowledge of the writer to the topic as a local comes from the area.
But I would add that by saying that if the world think that they can beat and fight these young men who have nothing to do and nothing to aim; but only to defend thiercountry to what they can find into their hand AK 47 and other hand guns that are the massive availabe in the lawless country these days.
The world is also at risk in being the Somali Ocean and sea without having a common agreement. As even mentioned in the article, there are Russian, Chinese and NATO, and European warships co hunting, what it is called Somali pirates but all started local fishermen that their fisher boats were destroyed by gianted Western illegal fishing ships,are at risk to coalide as it is the first time Russian and USA war ships for instance operate in the same sea area!!!! what can happen if these warship coalide as recently the British and French Submarines did???
What is more, if there dozen of warships went in the area as humaniterian and coast guide, there is a traffying human traffiking between the gulf of Aden and Somalia and daily hundrends and hundrens of Somalis running from the war are killed; they simply watch, they never resccue nor arrest or fight the smugglers so what on earth could they call save guide in the coast of Somalia.
In short it remains to be seen where it all ended for these un planned and un coordinated international warship presence in the ocean and sea of Somalia. And if the world is honest is solving the missery in the area, there is only one solution to give hand and help establish a stable government on the land in Somalia that can secure and save guide to its coastal areas!!!!! ????
Mahamoud Sh. Ahmed
I equate this article to an ill-educated and ill-informed left wing radical who thinks everything is everyone else’s fault except theirs.
The “to stop illegal fishing and dumping” part is just an excuse.
Btw, there is some logical inconsistency in accusing the same people for dumping toxic waste into same waters where they accusedly steal fish.
Circumstance does not excuse behavior.
I have never heard so much anger and volgarity spoken on jusst one article. what would happen if something really intence happened….take a breath and relax, your all too angry
Can’t Believe that Darth Obama and the Anglo-American Empire are even lying to us about the Pirates…. what the heck? Isn’t Darth Obama supposed to be African? Shouldn’t he be a little sympathetic to the plight of other poor Africans… I guess not… when are the well meaning Obama lovers gonna figure out that we’ve all been taken for a ride???
And yes I am Black… And no I’m not a sheep that mindeless bows down and licks the presidents boots because he is a charming aristocrat who appears to be a black man… I’m sorry folks.. any cousin of Bush and Cheney ain’t fit to run this country..
Do yourselves a favor and suspend your disbelief momentarily and go and watch the Obama Deception by Alex Jones… you’ll get it after that…
This Documentary is fascinating and sobering… Its not even a personal attack on Obama really.. it just shows who really runs the show…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
Open your eyes up black people.. we’ve been fooled!
I didnt see any pirates hijacking boats and demanding fair treatment of their land, a stop to dumping, etc. I saw a bunch of dirty faggots try to extort money from aid workers trying to feed starving people.
Langalibalele just go away until you have something intelligent to say! You have no clue or brain.
Alabama John you are right one man!!!!!!!! good.. no great points….
Obama worship is so hitlerian…
In regards to Somalia, the United States entered in 1992 with a United Nations mandate.
As for the allegations about the quality of life during the “golden age of piracy” on ships, it is very inaccurate, life as a sailor was not a hell, it had better food and medical care, at least in the Royal Navy, than nearly anyone in the lower or middle class on land had access to.
Mark B.,
“at least in the Royal Navy,”?
And how many pirates were in the royal navy? I think you just made the authors point… :-)
I’m a little torn with this article. On one hand I understand the desperation of a broken country that can easily drive those into piracy, but at the same time, the world seems to be tip towing around with them. Brut force and in mass population will simply out number these desperate pirates and deter them from committing these acts of piracy. I’m not sure about the claims of nuclear dumping and fish steal, but I don’t dismiss it either. I think I need to do more research before forming an official opinion. I hope others will do the same before jumping to conclusions. Remember, to all those extreme comments claiming one direction or another, there is a difference between a formal education and media education. Do your own research and then decide.
Thanks for posting this article
All fluff and no proof. There is absolutely no proof of such dumping or illegal fishing activities in Somali coastal water. Perhaps the Egyptians are encroaching in Somali waters, but that would be it. That makes it far from an international issue. Additionally, we’re talking HUNDREDS of miles from the coast. International law stipulates the extent of territorial waters at 12 nautical miles. That’s it. That’s all. Most nations voluntarily extend that by not encroaching within at least double the legally recognized extents, when possible. Somalia claims 200 (TWO HUNDRED) miles for themselves and calls them “Somalia Territorial Waters.”
Let’s get some facts, and some perspective here instead of the typical far-left “WE must be doing something wrong” to have caused all of this. This is nothing more than a further manifestation of islam in action. When islam rules, and people blindly follow a false god set up by a bloodthirsty pedophile, bad things happen. Somalia is only exhibit Q-64-a in an endless roster.
It’s not America’s fault. It’s not Europe’s fault. It’s not the Jews’ fault.
Brendan, please read the story we posted Monday, Somalis speak out: Why we don’t condemn our pirates, at http://www.sfbayview.com/2009/somalis-speak-out-why-we-don%E2%80%99t-condemn-our-pirates/
In the first section, you’ll find UN confirmation of the dumping: “In 2004, after a tsunami washed ashore several leaking containers, thousand of locals in the Puntland region of Somalia started to complain of severe and previously unreported ailments, such as abdominal bleeding, skin melting off and a lot of immediate cancer-like symptoms. Nick Nuttall, a spokesman for the United Nations Environmental Program, says that the containers had many different kinds of waste, including ‘uranium, radioactive waste, lead, cadmium, mercury and chemical waste.’”
European trawlers have nearly fished out the waters over the last several years on both the east and west coasts of Africa. That’s what sparked the exodus of young men from West Africa piling into their little boats to try to find work in Europe. Google will give you many credible stories and other sources to document that. No one seems to be disputing it.
Mary Ratcliff, editor
SF Bay View
The Somalia pirates have good enough reason to be hunting for ships and boats to extort for money to pay for their living expenses. When someone comes and destroys your house, then that destroyer owns you. Like Iraq, we broke Somalia and we have to be there to see them rise, even if it means having to pay some ransom to free our citizens held by pirates. That is the price of stupidity, and we all know it.
Forall those saying youcan’t dump the barrels in very deep water without crushing, you’re wrong. Simply fill them with water before the barrels are sealed. Liquid does not compress like air does. Also, sea water has some neutralizing effect on raioactive material.
If you had to steal from your friend to survive, and you do, should you be punished? Or should the person who made you steal be punished?
Put yourselves in their shoes.
I’m not justifying the kidnapping or the ransom demands, but it is not entirely their fault. There are more civilized ways of dealing with this, but put in mind that these people grew up in a city destroyed by hunger and missionaries. Growing up in what is like a refugee camp won’t exactly make a human out of you.
(not to be ”racist”), but as the famous BLACK rapper ODB
used to say……
”nigga, please”
these hijackings are hundreds of miles now, from the purported ‘waste dumping’, and ‘illegal fishing’..
these petty skanks are going after ANYTHING that floats…
Some of you assholes here justify these goings-on, as so many (pick-the-color) do during blackouts & riots, here in the u.s.
“I’m jus tryin’ ta feed mah family”, …….with tv’s, radios, sneakers being carried out of stores…
Stop the bullshit, namby-pamby ,douchebag excuses.
Many of these ships are carrying FREE FUCKING FOOD FOR AFRICANS, including SOMALIS…
you apolagetic, excuse-laden shit-heels are pathetic, especially YOU , Johann Hari.
Wow! You guys are real nut jobs out there in SF. Now I see where Pelosi got her mindset. Geeez! What wackos!
We are riding this horse to death and a lot of people have gone from the real to the absurd. Others are settling some score in whatever game they are playing.
The article insinuated that swashbuckling pirates in some needy country were risking their lives to defend their home land against dumpers of toxic waste. They were carrying on the romantic tradition of good vs. evil.
Can we ask ourselves a series of intelligent questions?
If foreign countries are Hell bent to dump toxic waste why travel all the way to Somalia? The ocean is huge and it is expensive to get there. I think the toxic waste probably belongs to Somalia or neighboring shit countries. I hate to take this away from evil whitey.
In a country plagued with AIDS and every other bacterial disorder known to man it is very noble that they are patrolling the coastline. Like muggers in the park,
and if a few bucks come their way, it should, as their intent is only to even the score with the bad hand they have been dealt in life. Let’s remember that 80% of the crime in the hood is perpetrated against other blacks.
In a country where a flush toilet is a luxury piracy does take on the need for supplemental employment. If you can’t swim one does not belong 300 miles from the coast trying to stick up freighters. Victims can carry guns as well and they have been damned lucky.
Any job we know of where a person goes to work with a gun there is a possibility that they will be killed. In this case they were. I think there will be many more.
We really wrecked their country and they were on the road to success at being a world super power. Now, like it or not the bad old corporations make it possible to
enjoy what we have in the old US of A. I don’t think any are willing to move into Somalia and we can only guess why.
This was a bull shit story that got a lot of publicity. If you swallowed it you are dumber than the pirates. Many of us did not. The guy that wrote is is laughing like Hell as he sold you crap and you ate it, he is counting the bucks off the ignorance.
If you judge people,
you have no time to love them.
I think it started off as what the article said it was all about, just them trying to survive, but then other ‘pirates’ came in and are doing it just for the money. I do not think they are ALL after the same thing.
mo teresa…..
i love them…….
i’d REALLY love them to die.
well am glad that someone nows what is going on out their as the reports we have r from yes u guessed it a media that is prepaired to lie about a war where men women and children are getting massacred, so that makes them really and in reality able to lie about anything to its own agenda…the worst thing about the media over here is some people actually believe it,which really shows the intelligence of people in the west, i can easily believe that the west is takin advantage of the no defence over their cos guess what thats what they have always done since the fuckin romans and probably b4 that..i personnally hope the tererists do blow up american system get george,.. blair and anyone else involved stick them in an electric chair make the face the direction of hell and press the button 5 times aday so all the real people that believe in truth and justice can have a good old sing song about what a good world we live in,,after the grieving that is for the innocent dead shot by a bunch of sycopaths in army uniforms, known as the army,,still hopefully they will be first on electric chair just for a bit of a spectacle…well done any somalian who stands up for himself for whatever reason…….uve got my full support and if i had any money u could have it…
My only problem with these pirates is as others have said. If they’re trying to be activists, then theft and kidnapping won’t do any justice to their cause. If the UN didn’t listen, then they should take the resource of the internet and make the truth known. Believe me, people will find it.
A photo of a ship dumping waste will do a lot of hurt to the business caught in it.
Remember the Black leaders in the 60s? They marches, built awareness, and fought by using the system. They didn’t steal and hurt people, then claim it’s a cause.
I believe the intent of the article is not to justify the actions of the pirates but rather to help explain the root causes of their lawlessness. While military actions, as in the case of the Maersk Alabama, may be successful in some instances, a long term solution to this crisis can only be achieved by addressing the root causes of the problem.
First of all, it seems that the UN, if truly functional would investigate the issues of the failed state of Somalia and its residents who are suffering as in all failed states. Political vacuums breed conflict and poverty. As we attempt to renew our international alliances following the most destructive 8 years in our history (Bushian cataclysm), we will need to enlist the international community in addressing these political vacuums and its suffering populations, while also insuring that none of the issues of dumping nuclear waste and overfishing occurs. The world needs the good will and friendship of many nations and I look to President Obama and his incredibly talented administration to re-establish organization and decency that America was once known for prior to the past 8 years. This is the basis of anti-terrorism policy in a tribal world.
Wow, I heard about this, any news on if the ones in the news were doing it more out of survival or for monetary gain?
Pirates with a cause should be seeking to correct the cause of their piracy – demand support and protection of their coastline instead of money. The simple fact that they always demand money as ransom proves they couldn’t care less about the “illegal fishing and waste dumping” that is supposedly occurring in their coastal waters.
The point is not that the pirates are justified…of course they are to blame for their actions. The point is that we can only defuse the situation by addressing the conditions that allow the pirates safe haven along the Somali coast.
thats the trouble with westerners its ok for their army to bomb steal kill genocide leave toxic shit all over someone elses country rob the poor and breainwash their own but oo someone not waving an american flag and saying ze heil to america and the all american dream is some how a threat to the world unlike the yank army who go round killin for sport,,,,u bunch of blind pricks i really hope the terrorist win and fuck america right up the arse…
steveo. You’re a dumbass. :)
Not everyone in America is like that, and not everyone in Africa has exactly good intentions.
You can’t take sides with anyone actually.
America and god knows which countries in Europe are trying to stop the pirating. Who knows, they might be spilling that shit in the sea, but still at least they’re trying to stop the pirating. I’m sure the pirates have a cause, they’re just manifesting it in the wrong ways. It is absurd to think that they are doing this only for money, because there are easier ways to get money.
Anyhow, there is more than one story to it. So stop being judgmental whether to the Americans, the Europeans, the Somalis, or the fucking Chinese, and base your judgments on something intelligent and not mainstream ideals.
Jazzykat. Meh. your opinions are worthless. the only thing you can say is bleeding heart liberal. Broken records get thrown in the rubbish, the same place your opinions belong
As interesting as this article is, I wonder if any of the ships boarded were dumping waste or fishing vessels. It seems to me they were commercial freighters…
Truth or News? Why Is the News as we Know It to be controled by the Very Rich? Money Is the Only TRUTH In the World?
Ron, on April 12th
Do they need millions of dollars to live? No, but if you’re going to be a thieving pirate, be the best thieving pirate you can be.
———————————————————-
So let me get this straight–your family needs to eat, so just demand a million dollar ransom or you’ll kill people? Because you want to ‘be the best’? So if they chop off a person’s hand for stealing a loaf of bread, what does your logic tell you the penalty for this act should be? I’m all for examining the problem of capitalist abuse in Somalia–but the point was made- penalize the ships that commit the crimes if you want to make a statement with acts of piracy. Otherwise, you’re just another greedy criminal.
Explotation from the stronger above the weaker, with no distinction of race is not acceptable.
Explotation of mother earth from human race is not acceptable.
There is two big problems in our lives… the media; who really knows if all news around the planet are true or not? it is practically impossible.
The other big problem is our egocentric way the see all things.
Black, white, red or yellow people yarayarayara…
My father is black, my mother is white, and my wife is japanese… and there’s no problem… just respect about our diffrents believes.
Some Proof from the UN:
For published research, search Google, using site:un.org and somolia toxic waste. You’ll find several documents showing they commissioned a study in 1995 that was published in 1997 that confirmed the overfishing and toxic waste dumping.
More recently, here is a 2005 report from the UN Environmental Program: http://www.unep.org/tsunami/reports/TSUNAMI_SOMALIA_LAYOUT.pdf
It states:
Further, Somalia is one of the many Least Developed Countries that reportedly received countless shipments of illegal nuclear and toxic waste dumped along the coastline. Starting from the early 1980s and continuing into the civil war, the hazardous waste dumped along Somaliaas coast comprised uranium radioactive waste, lead, cadmium, mercury, industrial, hospital, chemical, leather treatment and other toxic waste. Most of the waste was simply dumped on the beaches in containers and disposable leaking barrels which ranged from small to big tanks without regard to the health of the local population and any environmentally devastating impacts.
its mad how people still think that the somalians should play by american rules,and codes of conduct which in fact the americans dont heed to at all themselves i,e alleged attacks 9/11, then go and invade iraq and afghanistan countries that had nothing to do with it, oh but ships that werent invoved in the dumping get attacked and its a moral outrage,what a load of hippocritical bulshit,,do u think that if u had toxic waste killin u and family you would some how abide by some code of conduct that would enhance ure moral stand against the people or system doing it to u ,u would do whatever it took to survive and if that meant piracy then youd do it they havent declared war on u and i imagine they dont kill everyone unlike war where everyone and everything gets destroyed i hope the sea is on ure side,
and try to fuck an american army ship that would be a call to revolution times,,,and a stand for real people who are still able to think for themselves,,,,
Well with all the name calling and labelling each other as racists, the problem still exists that the pirates are continuing their endeavor. While there are 3 sides to every story (what you know, what the other knows and what you don’t know), two wrongs do not make a right.
The thought that the pirates are out to bring light to their plight is absurd. Do we not remember the French yacht captured by pirates with the family, including a 3 year old.
This cannot be condoned!
god u lot talk as if one day they just got up and said hey ho lets go and be a pirate me heartys yers lets go and get some plunder hey ho and they all went off to get some plunder,,oh look here comes the angels of god the army coming to save the holy people from the wicked evil pirates,,my god grow up they are trying to liberate even if only themselves and who are we to even begin to think we know what it must take to be a pirate in the modern day knowing the comeupance if it all goes wrong probably being death,,i think they are brave to stand up against a world that has shat all over them since the slave traid…yes u say thats in the past ,,well if u believe that go and see who owns the fertile land and who owns fuck all in their own country,,its the same in the carribean the rich landowners who own islands are the descendants of the slavetraders,and local people have nothing a pair of shorts unless of course they work for the descendants of the slavetraders ,,so please take rthe shit out of ure eye and realise these people are doing their best to get whats theirs anyway,,,freedom against a very biased system
What a bunch of blithering idiots…especially Langaliberal or what ever his nappyassed name is, who likes to call people crackers and apparently occupies a place of importance on this wreck you call a forum.
I say that cause if I were to call Langanutcase a n****r, in the same way as he throws around ‘cracker’, I would be drawn and quartered by the hypocritical losers who infest this waste of bandwidth you call a forum.
You driveling idiots would soil your diapers if you were on one of these ships and realized pirates were on your stern.
After a week with these poor misguided ‘environmental cleanup officials’, you’d come back and call for carpet-bombing their ships and ports. That’s cause you have no fu*kin clue how evil these motherf*ckers are.
How much have these ‘green’ pirates spent cleaning up ‘toxic waste’ off their shores? You clueless morons have no earthly idea.
You swallow their bullshit whole just like you swallow Al-Qaeda’s bullshit whole and Iran’s bullshit whole and Obama’s bullshit whole.
It’s time to track these leaders down, sink their mother ships, and if necessary strike their ports.
If you brainless liberals can’t get behind protecting our national interests, then get the hell out of the way and let the adults do the job.
HOW can you people be so STUPID?
Hang these worthless muthas; or kill them at sea. Worthless anarchist shits. Nothing but criminals. Pirates, my ass; they are gangsters. White, black, brown, who cares what color they are: they all bleed red.
This article is spot on. The US ‘help’ for Somalis has consisted of a Bushite 3rd war on Somalia (through Ethiopia), that has literally blown away stability in the Horn. 1) Stop the war 2) Stop Europeans from stealing fish from Somali or other African waters 3) Stop radioactive dumping and hold European powers responsible for criminal behavior. Africans must protect their interests. Conoco, Amoco and others only want to explore Somalia to benefit themselves. No more free rides for the West in Africa-make them pay royalties like Chavez or freeze them out if they dont want to play ball. We all know what this is really about.
Africans are ‘protecting their interests’ by hijacking foreign vessels and holding hostages?
But whenever America ‘protects its interests’ it’s ‘bloodsucking imperialism’.
Ok, let’s stop all these evil oil companies from ‘exploiting’ Somali waters.
Where in the hell are Somalis going to find employment so they can stop hijacking ships? If you’re so sympathetic to their economic plight you should be praising Conoco’s efforts to find them safer employment.
People like you who see ‘exploitation’ in every attempt to invest in a third world country, whose population is eager for the opportunity to move out of their mud huts and into a Western standard of living and self-respect, would continue their starvation and poverty.
And every country has a three-to-twelve mile territorial sea limit.
If anyone’s violating maritime limits it’s the Somali pirates who hijack ships well into international waters.
And I’m not familiar with Ethiopia’s ‘war’ with Somalia but since you blame it on Bush, it should have stopped three months ago.
Where do you get these ridiculous ideas? Stink Progress? Media Mattress?
Think for yourself, man.
Freedom fighting is a two-way street. The myth of the American Revolution valorized independent-minded businessmen who took up arms to protect their own slave, tobacco, and industrial hemp trade. (Hemp was eventually re-envisioned as a psychotropic menace from foreign ‘enemies’ so as not to out-compete timber and synthetic fibers produced by DuPont.) If freedom-fighters in Iraq or Somalia resist hyper-masculine, under-educated, alcoholic Marines or government-subsidized corporations from looting their countries, why is that treated any differently? Oh yeah because we were born and socialized and recited the pledge of allegiance to our flag and taught to hate anyone the corporate media deems an enemy of the state. Primitive tribes did the same thing thousands of years ago. As resources were over-exploited, the chieftain persuaded his people to invade and subjugate the next tribe over and appropriate their resources. This practice was passed on and honed over millenia from the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, British and Americans. The greatest achievement of our civilization is convincing us that we are any different. That was supposed to be the whole point of Christ, practicing humility, resisting greed and state/mob power but now that has even been twisted into an advertisement for corporate liberty and individual oppression be it a starving Somalian fisherman or an obviously well-educated blog troll like jazzykat.
Freedom fighting is a two-way street. The myth of the American Revolution valorized independent-minded businessmen who took up arms to protect their own slave, tobacco, and industrial hemp trade. (Hemp was eventually re-envisioned as a psychotropic menace from foreign ‘enemies’ so as not to out-compete timber and synthetic fibers produced by DuPont.) If freedom-fighters in Iraq or Somalia resist hyper-masculine, under-educated, alcoholic Marines or government-subsidized corporations from looting their countries, why is that treated any differently? Oh yeah because we were born and socialized and recited the pledge of allegiance to our flag and taught to hate anyone the corporate media deems an enemy of the state. Primitive tribes did the same thing thousands of years ago. As resources were over-exploited, the chieftain persuaded his people to invade and subjugate the next tribe over and appropriate their resources. This practice was passed on and honed over millenia from the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, British and Americans. The greatest achievement of our civilization is convincing us that we are any different. That was supposed to be the whole point of Christ, practicing humility, resisting greed and state/mob power but now that has even been twisted into an advertisement for corporate liberty and individual oppression be it a starving Somalian fisherman or any obviously well-educated participant in this forum.
Ok…you’re right. We’re exploiting these poor oppressed third world people.
So let’s leave the oil, diamonds, coal and gas in the ground, keep the garment factories and assembly facilities at home, and LEAVE THESE PEOPLE TO STARVE while their corrupt leaders send our foreign aid and benefit concert proceedings to Swiss bank accounts.
Who do you think these companies are going to hire? The local population, of course.
And they soon move out of their shacks, get running water and electricity, better health care, regular and better food, self-respect and less dependence on tinpot tyrants and bleeding heart liberals and won’t have to plunder shipping for a living.
Even Obama’s brother might be able to afford three meals a day…instead of in a week.
We agonize over 10% unemployment in the US. Over there, it’s closer to 75%.
If there’s ANY ‘exploitation’, it’s by third world dictators who sell the labor of their own citizens and take a cut of every wage.
I can hear a million Somalis crying out right now. You know what they’re crying?
HEY LIBERALS, STFU!! WE WANT THESE JOBS!!
What’s your view on the ‘maquiladores’ just inside the Mexican/US border? Are they not benefiting Mexicans who no longer need to risk their lives in the US deserts?
And it’s obvious you have no idea what an ‘undereducated, alcoholic Marine’ has to know to do his job…aside from sheer courage.
Every Marine must have a high school diploma or GED prior to entry and their training and technical schools are second to none.
If I stipulate that Somalis have the ‘right’ to plunder the world’s shipping, it does not follow that the world must roll over and submit…especially the US.
Would YOU submit to being robbed, for example twice a month, by a thug who thinks he has a legitimate claim to your money?
(No? You just DID. Unless you voted for McCain.)
Some of the comments here are utterly amazing. a NUMBER of independent investigations into conditions in and around Somalia all conclude that the dumping of radioactive waste and over-fishing of the waters in the region complicate the already-difficult circumstances in that region. More to the point, however, is that Somalia itself – on land – is in a state of total collapse. The author of this commentary makes a very good point, and in going back to the history of piracy, does bring up material relevant to the issue.
However, her recourse to history is incomplete. Last week I posed an article about how history tells us piracy itself should be fought (not the origins, just the actions):
http://www.opednews.com/articles/History-Reveals-Piracy-Poi-by-DerLange-090416-150.html
You have to read to the end of the story to get to some commentary that is a bit related to this article. Basically, history says send in the navy and shut down their refuges ashore. That sounds imperialistic, but is not.
Obviously the overwhelming problems of East Africa must receive far more serious attention than they receive today. the racist right-wing commentators above do not understand that it IS in America’s national interest to do so. But their comments also show they don’t much care about history or anything else.
My last two posts showed more concern for third world people than anything you’ve showed in your entire miserable life.
If you truly cared about these people, you wouldn’t drive away their only hope of earning a decent living vs existing from the crumbs that fall off some generalissimo’s table or alms from some pitiful group of aging musicians trying for a comeback.
You insist on granting Somali pirates a moral sanction that most of them don’t claim for themselves.
And if you had any brains you wouldn’t write an obviously well-researched post and then ruin it by calling people ‘racists’.
That’s because everything else gets ignored.
You can take ‘racist’ and stick it up there alongside your head, pal.
And as far as ‘not caring about history’ we’re about to create another Depression by pursuing the same failed policies that caused the last one.
Hmm, Tailgunner. I addressed the broad range of comments accumulating – the people who deny that there are any problems for somalia caused by radioactive waste dumping, esploitation of natural resources while the nation is incapable of operating functionally, and of course those charming folk who think “nigger” helps communicate anything.
Now that you decided to take me on directly, I took a look at your posts. If you REALLY yhink Somalis are getting good jobs, decent wages, a chance to hoist themselves up and so forth from the operations of foreign companies in that nation today, then you should be investing in businesses that are built on making profits from somalian consumer sales and the like. There’s an opportunity going begging right now!
Truth is, somalia, the sudan, and a number of other African and Asian states are all failing. “Capitalism” in their cases is not operating at all. In many situations, a form of de facto fascism is at work – strongarms claiming the wealth for themselves and a small collation of other positioned to reap whatever benefits they can grab and use the population as slaves or worse.
Ideology is utterly useless in dealing with these states. They don’t need anyone’s ideologies – they need long-term engagement that recycles the limited welath of their nations into rebuilding those countries, that separates warring parties and if necessary forcibly prevents further conflict, that works with the local peoples to rebuild their basic living environments and allows the local peoples to pursue courses of development that will sustain them. Right wingers in the U.S. consider such ideas “socialism,” which is utter hooey. Left wingers in the U.S. consider these same ideas a form of imperialism because this is an interventionist approach based on pragmatic principles. The left wingers’ take is also hooey.
These are conditions that specifically exmplify why the United nati9ones was first established, and how the U.S. in fact worked for more than 10 years after WWII ended. As a practical matter, the U.N. is really unlikely to do much now. Oddly enough the people who could lead an international coalition to take effective action are the ones who run the International MOnetary Fund and the World Bank.
by the way, Tailgunner. Adopting Sen. Joe McCarthy’s political nickname really doesn’t help a lot. “Tailgunner Joe” was never a tailgunner, he lied about his service record, and he lied about Communists when he headed up his Senate committee. Joe McCarthy was simply an opportunist without principles.
You might want to look for a different avatar.
My self image does not depend on your approval.
My screen name ‘Tailgunner’ has nothing to do with Joe McCarthy or politics. (Incidentally, KGB files released after the fall of the former Soviet empire proved McCarthy was rightly concerned about Soviet espionage and infiltration in the US.)
And the subject at hand is Somali piracy and how to stop it, not nuclear dumping, or illegal fishing, or a failed state.
You didn’t ‘look’ too hard at my posts. I said nothing about Somalis ‘getting good jobs’.
‘”Capitalism” in their cases is not operating at all. In many situations, a form of de facto fascism is at work – strongarms claiming the wealth for themselves and a small collation of other positioned to reap whatever benefits they can grab and use the population as slaves or worse.’
So the problem is NOT ‘capitalism’, it’s the prevention or unequal distribution of capitalism by LOCAL tyrants or warlords.
“Ideology is utterly useless in dealing with these states. They don’t need anyone’s ideologies – they need long-term engagement that recycles the limited welath (sic) of their nations into rebuilding those countries, that separates warring parties and if necessary forcibly prevents further conflict, that works with the local peoples to rebuild their basic living environments and allows the local peoples to pursue courses of development that will sustain them.”
Sounds like there’s a heavy dose of capitalism in there to me.
And who do you expect to ’separate warring parties’ and ‘forcibly prevent further conflict’?
Someone’s going to have to (gasp) invade that country. Course if WE do it, it’s ‘imperialism’.
What country meets your ideological standards to go in there and restore order?
How many divisions do the IMF and World Bank have?
And you’ve certainly got a lot of nerve preaching about being an ‘opportunist without principles’. Try reading Rahm Emanuel sometime (‘never let a crisis got to waste….you can accomplish a lot more than you think’)
And Obama is the consummate opportunist…using a Democrat-precipitated economic crisis to hysterically ram through a socialist economic coup without the slightest concern for the present or future health of the economy.
you don’t think that warlords and tinpot dictators are part and parcel of globalized corporations plans for Africa or South Asia or the Middle East. The reason that these warlords are installed and sponsored by industrial countries is that they squander profits from minerals on arms and when they don’t, the bored, hyper-masculine, alcoholics are called in to take them out because they have been labelled ’socialist’ or ‘communist’ for nationalizing their minerals industries and developing infrastructure for their country: it’s a pattern that has repeated itself dozens of times. the same thing happened in the u.s. coal industry, to list one example, in the 20’s, 30’s, 40’s when miners tried to organize for fair pay and safe working conditions mercenaries murdered them and terrorized their communities by dropping bombs. do you think obama or any of the bushes care about the courage a marine has to go into iraq or afghanistan? no soldiers are disposable even kissinger admitted that. additionally what’s the difference between a marine going to iraq to earn pay to support his/her family or gain education, a somali hijacking a ship to feed his/her family, or a drug dealer in the states running from the cops to get money to his children? there really isn’t a difference: they are all victims of receding educational and job opportunities brought on by government sponsorship of a wasteful, inefficient corporate order. additionally the conditions for a socialist coup were initiated by Bush 43 and really even earlier: huge giveaways to companies who failed because of bad lending inspired by rollbacks of new deal legislation. in fact socialist countries in central europe and scandinavia are doing quite well right now
maquiladoras and “economic protection zones” or free trade zones are part of austerity policies and imf reform measures enforced on countries at the end of a u.s. issued m-16 or by an international banking group that is more than happy to wine and dine the families of the elites with the knowledge that wealth won’t be shared. the leaders of somalia, ethiopia, iraq, congo, sudan aren’t democratically elected; neither was hitler or bush. however they gain the ability to seize control with the funds and logistical support of industry that have an interest in monopolizing the mineral wealth or seafood surplus or unregulated coastline, etc. of said country. tailgunner say this with me: i am not a unique or beautiful snowflake, our opinions ultimately don’t matter, i am part of the same decaying compost heap as a somali ship hijacker or iraqi insurgent. perhaps humility will help you overcome your angry egocentric and highly prejudicial psychopathology.
also what exactly about mccains platform or political history makes him any different than obama or bush. policy wouldn’t really look that much different if mccain would have won: huge giveaways to aig and banks with no oversight. it’s funny how one could advocate grassroots wealth distribution and rail against the business and government elites of a foreign country while worshipping the ground and eating every little lie put forth by government and their government lackies here. the author and reactionaries on this forum are concluding the same thing that people deserve a fair shot and shouldn’t be screwed over by government but for some reason no one can come to the conclusion that corporate political parties and their submissive military are the root of the problem. it’s because we all have certain blindnesses in the way we see the world. some can’t admit that international business has used our country as a front to rape and pillage individuals of other countries and others are just so happy that the nightmare of the last eight years is over they can’t see that obama is just a logical extension of dubya’s policies. that his highminded platitudes for change are just marginal amendments to policy while continuing the systemic imperialism of the system, and both sides would rather use this forum as an outlet of their anger at their consumerist despiritualized simulated commercial for a life than a way to find common ground. It really aint nuthin new
Go to hell. My opinion matters.
And don’t transfer your ‘psychopathology’ to me. I’m not the one performing leaps of logic trying to blame all the evils in the world on US imperialism.
I think you majored in British Empire 101 with a minor of Gunboat Diplomacy. Well, that ended nearly a hundred years ago. Since then both Britain and the US have been in a race to see who can give away the most possessions. (The US is behind at the moment since most of our possessions don’t WANT to be independent.)
The only country I’m aware of which is engaging in raw economic warfare is China, in the Spratley Islands which belong to the Philippines, and off the coast of Cuba, where they are drilling in areas placed off limits for US oil exploration by Democrats.
And of course the Somali pirates, who somehow always emerge from their predations as blameless victims in the warped minds of pathetic, self-loathing, guilt-ridden, indoctrinated anti-American navel-gazers like yourself.
Where’s all the wealth that we’re exploiting from Somalia with the help of ‘industrialized countries’ who have ‘installed and supported’ these warlords? Hm?
Not much return on their investment so far, hey?
Why don’t you come down from YOUR high horse and spend a week with those ‘decaying compost heaps’ who are right now FIRING on ships…but of course just to get money to clean up the oceans and feed their families.
It’s easy for you to opine when you’re halfway around the world from merchant seaman, who ALSO are trying to feed THEIR families, knowing you’ll never have to face the evil you’re defending.
And Iraq, to name another alleged victim of Western imperialism, is now a functioning, albeit imperfect, representative republic. Where’s all the oil we’re supposed to be ‘looting’ from Iraq? In fact we’re the ones being looted since the Iraqi government has set a floor on the price of oil sold to the US.
Did you just say that US miners organizing in the twenties-forties were bombed by mercenaries?
Most likely you meant overseas. Well, then, again it was local leaders who either carried out or authorized these raids; yet once again you blame corporations for the actions of local tyrants.
And ‘maquiladores’ et al were instituted by agreements between countries, e.g. NAFTA; the idea they were pushed to adopt them at the ‘end of an M-16′ is ludicrous. Where are the ‘M-16’s’ that force these people to go to work each day? Are they, as you imply, slaves?
And the idea that European socialism is doing quite well is a lie. In healthcare alone they are experiencing a disaster in the making. Thousands die on waiting lists that may be several months or even years for care that the US provides within days…or minutes.
Keep your ‘kumbaya’ bullshit for someone who’ll swallow it.
fuck all these nigger cunts, dirty robbing scum bags.
i hope all the robbing niggers are shot dead !
who in the hell cares about a 3rd world country. they thought they had balls coming on the ship until the us navy had 6 warships firmly planted up their asses. fuck those 3rd world niggers and all that bullshit article above. theres always someone trying to say that something is corrupt like that fucking pussy who rote the article
In general, I think debating with Tailgunner is a waste of time. His extremist laissez-faire ideology combined with a let’s-have-a-fight at the bar hostility do not admit to discussion, just bottle-throwing.
I’m back here now simply to address a question he rasied that has now been batted back and forth a couple of times and should get a bit of discussion. I don’t particularly care what either Tailgunner, Navigator, or anyone else has had to say about maquiladoras – I do care about those “free trade zone” factories and the utter havoc they have and are causing.
the “maquiladora” system is in fact a tool of economic oppression. Ostensibly created to give jobs to Mexicans who otherwise would do without, stimulated development in mexico, and provide North American markets with goods produced at low, competitive prices, they are in fact vile cesspits, sources of incredible pollution, and a re-creation of the old “company town” once common in the U.S. during the late Industrial Period.
I taught in Mexico at one time and saw first-hand the evils of what was supposed to be the fruit of enlightened free-market capitalism at work. “Maquiladoras” indeed attract people from all over Mexico. They employ workers at exceptionally low wages, with no benefits or social protections of any kind, for up to 90 days. At that point under Mexican law, the factories must then either give those people permanent jobs with benefits or teminate them. Guess what happens?
Yep, 90 days on the job and you are OUT!
The communities where the facotry workers live are desperate slums, often in riverbeds and flood plains, with housing of mud, grass, tarpaper and carboard. Ther are no sewers, municipal water, streets to speak of, or anything else. The facotry owners do provide some access to goods and services, at prices the workers can hardly afford, or on “loan” that eats up their paychecks while they are employed.
In many cases, the workers simply rotate eveyr 90 days between different facilities. There’s also a minimum period between hrings by factories so that folk aren’t fired one day and re-hired the next.
The plants themselves have virtually no pollution control or other environmental requirements. The plants are horrible places to work, the air, land and waer around them is poisonous, and the conditions worse than almost anywhere on Earth.
Of course people still go there. So do the miners in the Andes who literally work themselves to death in a short time because at least they have some work. So do the little girls (and boys) in the infamous brothels of Thailand and the Philippines.
These are the conditions that demand if not government intervention then organization by the workers themselves to impose chane. History shows it over and over, this is hardly a new story. Labor conditions in the U.S. were vile until unions first forced change and then eventually government saw the benefits of regulating the workplace. “Free market” advocates are frankly full of crap.
The expriment with NAFTA is a huge failure of policy. The maquiladoras are only one example why.
what makes u think that people living on the earth and in mud huts dont have self respect,,oh i see cos their not working like slaves for the yanky doller after all everyone nows the yanky doller deserves respect,god if thats what u think that u need to work to have self respect then u really are one of thr original american puppet people go back to voting and reading the media and ure normal white life believeing u are somehow superoir to the rest of the world who do in fact ahave a different way of looking at things ..god civilisation really is wank
Steveo, you need to read the post again. There’s nothing in it degrading the determined, hard-working people who must endure difficult conditions of life. I already made the point you are attempting to address.
their u have it..theres nothing to degrade the hard working,as if somehow people that work are like the holy of the new world,,do u not realise how destructive work is, not only to different cultures but to the enviroment peoples health and their ability to be happy…the only thing more destructive than work is war…god some people really do have the western system firmly emplanted in their,brainwashed minds…..point 2 how come its wrong for warlords to fight each other but its fine for the yanky army to fight the warlords,,at least warlords have a fair fighty against each other,,but against the american army the,most heavily armed bunch of cowards on the planet…and if u think ure brave then go onshore without the army as ure back up after all ure enemy only has its wits and a few peaces of light artilliary…i dont agree with war in any of its shapes or forms but to think u can invade a country with an army at gunpoint is exactly the same as local tribes fighting each other,,except the tribes dont stand a chance against the yanky war machine….so fuck off america stop behaving like u rule the world and somehow have a rightous way of going to war against tyranny when u are the tyrant inso many countrys….god youll be selling them crack next to enslave them to yanky doller…
Dear readers,
Whatever you guys are saying, but this kind of act by robing
is not acceptable by any civilized nations around the world.
Akber…please tell me example of at least one civilized nation? Before u tell me please think!
Well done to the Somali Pirates.
US Peacekeepers were in Somalia for some time and in force not with ‘guns blazing’ but protecting stocks of food and other goods earmarked for starving,dying Somalis (that were being stolen by gunmen)before the force was drastically reduced and the Somalis took advantage of the reduction-Now someone please explain since the US is so unspeakably corrupt and evil and obviously hates Muslims why US troops are in Kosovo right now protecting Muslim Alabanians from Christian Serbs-Why are the overwhelming majority of US Military missions in Iraq Humanitarian in nature?Thats just not sexy enough,is it?
And please,Commenters,specify If you have ever actually BEEN to Somalia or Kosovo or Iraq,or anywhere at all,for that matter.
you really do believe that sending an army into war with a country is humanitarian..apparently their isnt a building in baghdad that hasnt been bombed..oh u mean that their going to put in a democratic western style capatalist system where guess what they can vote for people put forward by the yanks that do what the yanks say like puppet people…oh yeah blow shit out of a country then offer it humanitarian aid gosh u americans are so kind why didnt adolf hitler think of that it would have been good pr,,oh yeah i forgot hes not a many headed beast like bush obama and the rest of u fucked up thick as shit twats
Dear readers/friends,
I don’t want to into hypotetically. But I can say this: Obviously Somalia cannot control the activities of criminals on shore or in boats threatening the shipping lanes. A proactive policy to intercept and capture or kill these pirates would send a clear message to other would-be pirates: Risk of death if you try this. Costs for protection to be assessed to each country under whose flag the vessel is regisrered. Ship owners would also be assessed based on tonnage.
The United States can lead this effort and enlist logistical support from other nations. We have the technology; Let’s use it.
i think we should all join pirates and give the west the big middle finger
I am no way condoning the action of the pirates, west are no innocent at all, what were they doing in Somalia in the first place and overtaking their shores. And they are calling Amreicans hostages heroesa nd stars- that is what American liked to be called to me they are craz people. Amreicans are the greatest thieves, thugs and liars that I have ever seen or heard ni my entire life and they are also the real terrorist- terrorising into people territories.
Americans still have their heads up their ass because they believe what their media conveys to them since the Black Hawk happened and the Americans were embarrased against impoverished and war torn country, their more to what meets the eye, somalia doesn’t have a form of government and this so called pirates are defending their and guarding their shores and coastlines and any one masquarading should be ransomed(taxed) for stealing Somalis natural resources and if not complying then be ready for the worst to happened!!!! And Ihave learnt that Geneva convention and the Amnesty Internationals are the wives of the West.
Dear friend Raffiq. As I said before that I don’t want to go into hypotetically on this issue, but if this is fact what you are saying then they put their case through United Nations security council. Thanks.
Its Somalia, do you really give a sh*t if these people live or die? Either we can kill them, they will starve or they will kill each other.
Dear friends,
Raffiq,
With all due respect, I don’t think that you guys will advanced to your goel nor your Somali government. The best thing to start is that you have to go through proper authority, or through our President Barack Obama.
Change will not come if you guys wait for some other person or some other time, you are the one you’ve been waiting for. YOU ARE THE CHANGE THAT YOU SEEK.
Well guys this article was interesting. In my opinion, I really believe that commercial ships are going to Somalia to fish the sea dry. I really believe the Somalians are hurting because fishing is their livelyhood. On the other hand, I’m not sure if I believe the story about them dumping nuclear waste. There has to be more solid evidence for me to believe that. If they were dumping waste there, it would be because European countries don’t want to dump it in their backyard and contaminate their own waters. Since Somalia borders are not regulated, this would be the best solution instead of dumping it underground on their own soil or in their own waters (dumping it in deep water will still require them to travel a long distance and the containers would have to be strong enough to handle the psi pressure at those depths). You know the propaganda never tells the full story, so what story should you believe? I think you should go look at the full spectrum before making that decision and hopefully you have gathered the most information you can.
To dirtyJew… Your comment about their waters being fished out MAY be correct but the issue is not the capture of fishing ships but the capture of world commerce that has a right to pass through that area. Somalians for someone who has been there and seen them first hand are their own worst enemies. No one does more environmental damage to their coastline and waters than they do, no one over fishes that area and does so without concern for the next year’s harvest than they do.
Before any of these claims about what others are doing to Somalia can garner any credibility the Somalians first have to stop their criminal actions. We can’t expect people to respect the waters and land there if we continue to ignore the horrible things they do in that area. A country rightfully should be the steward for their country before anyone else is expected to do the same.
I see many comments here that are really nothing more than pipe dreams, wishful thinking and misplaced blame.
The simple fact is that possible nuke waste disposal in that area is wrong but it is a different topic. The Somalians should not and cannot be allowed to illegally take what is not theirs, to put other’s lives at risk and to continue to behave in this way.
As adults people have to stop this well the US or France or country XYZ does this and that so the Somalians are doing this and that in return.
I do not think many of you (including the author of the article) even remotely understand the situation there. They are a people living in anarchy. They have no government no law no recourse for the thousands of people they victimize in their own country each year.
The criminal actions of Somalians have to be stopped and they will eventually be stopped. And hopefully anyone else in the area committing crimes including any US companies can and should also be brought to justice.
They are not Robin Hood and his merry men they are animals that do great harm to others passing through and even worse things to their own people.
Africa is a continent still full of amazing natural resources. Unfortunately Africans are the biggest abusers of those resources and they aren’t even really benefitting. just small pockets of corrupt local officials and the people are the ones suffering.
People typically only know that Nigeria is a place full of fraudsters but there are people in Lagos and Abuja and the surrounding areas that are kind, loving, wonderful people. the same goes for every country within Africa that I have gone to for work. Africa is a sad story… Even sadder is the relatively small amount of locals there that are tearing that country apart with corruption and brutal dictators. Hell slavery is still RAMPANT in Africa.
Authors like the one who wrote this story would be serving the good people of Africa much more were they to do stories about the truth of Africa, their corrupt dictators, tribal hatred, slavery where Blacks sell Blacks to other Blacks.
Wanna help that amazing place? Start telling the truth about how Africans in the various countries there are tearing the very soul out of the land and people. I can think of no other continent that harbors so many destructive, animalistic, corrupt leaders and citizens.
Africa is amazing, truly, we do not serve her well by ignoring what its own residents are doing there.
fuck all of u im going to join the pirates
Wow after reading all this….I ralize I am a very peaceful imdividual and halfway normal…this was some interesting ,hateful racist,argumrntatiove,political bashing stuff. Peace to you all . And yes I am sure I wii wrath of fury for saying even thar.
Wow after reading all this….I ralize I am a very peaceful individual and halfway normal…this was some interesting ,hateful racist,argumentative,political bashing stuff. Peace to you all . And yes I am sure I will get the wrath of fury for saying even thar/that. :)
I love when the white racists come out and make up shitty excuses, like that pussy David.
I empathize with the Somalian people. Governments, were installed by humans…not lower class animals, as we humans, are the highest class of animals! The U.S.A has a vendetta with vindictive malice!,against Somalia…when their soldiers were being hauled dead along the streets.
Those issues of toxic dumping should be addressed by the U.N & also the U.S. Those nefarious acts are just not right!,& just not fair; to exploit people that have a weak political directorate. When people rebel, they call them terrorist. Why we have so much Muslim extremism…is because of Israel’s abuse of the Palestinians. The U.S & the European union’’s bias involvement for over 60 years.
You are uneducated person and racists, Please don’t come back, we have important issues to discussed. Thanks.
dont think their is any mulim extremism except on the telly, ive never come across any or met any other than the totally fictisous made up propoganda on the televisions organised war,, after all have u ever met a muslim extremist,,,,and if they can lie about war , they can lie about somalia, they can lie about anything….
Hey! Sophomore in high school here!! I’m looking for information FOR MY DEBATE CLASS! LET”S KEEP LANGUAGE AND COMMENTS CLEAN SO I CAN BE PROUD OF MY RESEARCH!!! IF I CITE THIS SOURCE MY COACHES, JUDGES, AND COMPETITORS MIGHT LOOK IT UP AND I WILL LOOK BAD FOR USING IT AS A SOURCE!!!
I hope they dump some of the toxic waste on to some of US and western countries coasts’ so we get an idea of what its like to be African. The exploitation, imperialism and propaganda by the west toward the pirates is terrible. I could keep going on with this liberal bullshit. I question the sources of information. Vinette don’t worry about using this as a source. Remember the liberal education system will probably love this shit.
The pirates are hi-jacking these ships in international waters, and kidnapping innocent people for long periods of time. Both of those are wrong, and illegal. If any other country did that war would’ve been started. Stop using your skin color as a defense, not every caucasian is racist.
Stop fighting with each other, take a small amount of time to investigate the Somalian Pirates and their armament, note the overwhelming adversaries they face as in combined forces, and then ask yourself; What the hell is really going on in the Gulf of Aden? Far more than is being reported is the likely answer. Nearly every major country in the world is heavily involved. How many times over could they have beaten Somalia into submission? They’re not going anywhere anytime soon. Something huge is in the works over there.